Goddamn Charlie Manuel last night

[Leonard Tose]

Two situations just kill me from last night's loss to the Mets.

First, bottom of the sixth, Phils are clinging to a one-run lead after the first Delgado home run. Scott Eyre has just come in and shut the door on the Mets after Delgado got them pumped.

Burrell leads off with a double. Great! Ryan Howard has a very tough AB and works a walk. Things are looking good.

Here comes Victorino. Fucker strikes out. What the fuck is Charlie doing here? Bunt the goddamn runners over. I'm not a huge fan of giving away outs, but I freaking hate the way this team strands leadoff doubles right and left. Victorino is the five-hole hitter, but he's not your classic No. 5 hitter here. He should have been bunting, goddamn it. One run would have been huge. I'm not a big advocate of small ball, but every once in a while it would be nice to generate a run from something other than a HR.

Second scenario. Two outs in the eighth. Seanez pitching. Here comes Delgado, who is hitting everything and who kills Seanez.

Lidge is up and he's done well against Delgado in the past. I'm screaming for Manuel to bring Lidge in because I hate this freaking rule that the closer can only pitch the 9th. Pitch the closer when the goddamn best hitter is up! Use Romero in the 9th. Lidge won't care -- he just got paid. Fuck all anyway!

Then the fucker brings Lidge in to close the barn door after the horses have already gotten out. Nice job last night Charlie.

[sfphillyfan]

As soon as I saw Rudy I knew we were cooked. But Lidge wasn't much better. He seems to thrive in SAVE situations so who knows how it would have turned out.

Romero wasn't available last night.

[Leonard Tose]

As soon as I saw Rudy I knew we were cooked. But Lidge wasn't much better. He seems to thrive in SAVE situations so who knows how it would have turned out.

Romero wasn't available last night.


good point on Romero -- the pen was all stretched out two nights ago.

but with Lidge -- who knows? he's got a great track record with delgado, that was the out he'd be going for.

[MDFAN]

The Victorino thing is a 50/50 deal--- you try to bust the game open with a big inning, you let him swing, he's been hot and the Mutts would have folded if they scored another 3 or 4 there--- bunt and you still don't guarantee anything as you look at what the 2 batters next did(and yes I understand the whole dynamics change) Charlie manages a lot via his gut--- I'm not going to fault him there, that's just 2nd guessing.

I agree on the Seanez thing a bit more, although he had pitched very well to the 2 previous hitters I think I still would have gone with Lidge to get me 4 outs based on the Delgado/Seanez history --- but none of it would have mattered if the Phils had just gotten some timely hits!

[Leonard Tose]

The Victorino thing is a 50/50 deal--- you try to bust the game open with a big inning, you let him swing, he's been hot and the Mutts would have folded if they scored another 3 or 4 there--- bunt and you still don't guarantee anything as you look at what the 2 batters next did(and yes I understand the whole dynamics change) Charlie manages a lot via his gut--- I'm not going to fault him there, that's just 2nd guessing.

I agree on the Seanez thing a bit more, although he had pitched very well to the 2 previous hitters I think I still would have gone with Lidge to get me 4 outs based on the Delgado/Seanez history --- but none of it would have mattered if the Phils had just gotten some timely hits!

I would agree, but for one thing -- Johan Santana was still on the mound pitching at that point. He's a hard guy to bust a game open on. If Santana is on the mound, it's a no-brainer for me to play for the single run.

[flyered]

and then there is tonight. i am usually pretty even-keeled on things, but i think this team may be done while being only one game out. bullpen is fried. if we lose more than a game to the mets in the standings during the rest of the weekend it will be very tough. one thing about the mets this year is that they actually come back strong after excruciating losses (plenty of chances, for sure)... phils couldn't do it tonight. mets bullpen is actually getting stronger, i think. monday's loss will go down as a meltdown by them, but in reality they allowed 3 runs in 8 innings ... not too shabby. their manuel left pedro in too long. ayala is helping mets' bp and sooner or later wagner will be back. we are fine in the standings, but i worry about the team's ability to rebound and, in particular the bullpen's.

[MDFAN]

While you may be right, I'm not quite ready to lay any meltdown at the BP's door. They have basically been the strongest unit for 80% of the season. IMO, 2 games don't tell a tale.

[sfphillyfan]

At least the hitting is coming around!

[saratoga]

Morning Report: Manuel should forget the book

By Don McKee

INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

Things to think about.

Ryan Madson can't pitch with the game on the line.

Maybe that sentence should simply end after the word pitch, but with Labor Day on the horizon, I'm being generous.

Ryan Madson can't pitch with the game on the line.

Charlie Manuel's move last night, removing Cole Hamels after seven innings and 108 pitches, and with a 4-1 lead, was perfectly defensible.

Bringing in Madson was not.

Staying away from J.C. Romero was perfectly understandable, given the workload the energetic lefthander had borne in the three Phillies victories before Wednesday.

But using Madson in his place was not. Chad Durbin failed just as dismally.

Then out came Romero to drive home the point of how bad the personnel judgment had been.

The problem here may be the difference in managing by the book and managing in real life.

Again, removing Hamels was fine on paper, but not with so ravaged a bullpen. Bleeding one more inning out of him (with two runs to waste) to get to Brad Lidge was the better "real life" move.

The book says go to your set-up man in the eighth. Manuel wanted to go by the book, but he doesn't have the players.

Lifting the star starter - to preserve his arm for the rest of the race - is a reasonable move. But not without Romero available.

There's a voice saying "use Brad Lidge for two innings."

Again, permissible. But that might make the sensational closer unavailable for the next two days.

The same paper-vs.-real-life situation prevails with Manuel's continual use of pinch-runners for Pat Burrell late in games. By the book, it's the right move. But in real life, the Phillies batters who hit behind Burrell so rarely deliver that the move is worthless.