Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

After reflection, this is how I feel............

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • After reflection, this is how I feel............

    How I feel about TDK move............

    JIMHO.................................

    1. From strictly a on the field football move.......... great. Great move because if I think of his talent level added to this team is a major major plus. If the guys name wasn't Vick but maybe Billy Bob Jackson then I would be ecstatic to be able to gain that much talent at this time of year, as basically the 53rd man ( Byron Parker) on my roster. It's a steal talent wise, and on the field wise.

    2. From a football team move............... wait and see. I know their all saying all the right things now. But in my heart I know there are guys on that team that are dog lovers and pet lovers in general and guys that will absolutely hate the media circus that this signing will bring with it. And who knows what affect this will have on them, and since non of us will be there -- nobody knows.


    3. From a helping this team win move............ again a wait and see. The media circus that will now accompany this team for the entire year will almost overshadow what this team does on the field. The distractions will be immense. This could be a lot like 2005 with OD. This much of a circus might not be what this team needs. Talent on the field isn't everything when parity is so abundant as it is in the NFL, the mental aspect is the key IMO, and this move could affect that mental balance in not a good way.


    4. From an organization move...... I hate it. It doesn't improve our chances of winning this year, it throws more doubt into that IMO. This was the organization that I was proud of not only for how they played on the field but also that they held to some standards that I could and did agree with. They didn't bring in guys with questionable character. I liked that. And no matter how many platitudes I hear about the Eagles doing the christian thing here, and being strong enough to offer the 2nd chance-------- he has always been of questionable character. This wasn't the only incident in his adult life. So in my mind he is still of questionable character until he EARNS the respect needed to be considered a "character" guy on my team. And for that I have lost respect for this F/O.

    5. From a fans pov move............ Again I don't like it. I don't like my team to be the butt of the countless jokes that follow. I know just how I was about Ray Lewis, and now I'm asked to be a hypocrite? No thanks. Got a note today from a guy, "protect your beagle, Vicks an Eagle". This will divide the fan base. This will distract the fan base. Instead of 100% focus on Eagles and Eagles football, this will take part of that focus away, it has too, it's only natural that it does. And anybody that thinks it won't is being naive or intentionally obtuse, IMO.

    6. From my personal pov move............. I hate it. I have never liked the guy. I always questioned his character even before the whole dog issue. And unlike others, while I believe in 2nd chances, I think they need to be earned and proven not just handed out like candy. Do I think a few words to Tony Dungy or Roger Goodall prove that he has changed? No, I don't. He was a rotten character for at least 10 years of his life and was a despicable human being for at least 6 of those years. Yes, give him a 2nd chance, after he has earned it not just he sez he has been reformed.
    Right now he is saying whatever anybody wants him to say --- cause he has a lot of money to make up for, and he HAS to say these things in order to collect.

    So MY bottom line is this....

    The Eagles are still my team, I still root for the uni more than the people.I will cheer when they do good and pout when they do bad.

    The F/O has dropped on my ladder of respect considerably. Even if we win, I will feel like I have to take a bath after the game. Today I am not as proud to be an Eagles fan as I have been the last 10 years.

    I will give TDK a chance to EARN a 2nd chance with me, but it will not just be handed to him. If that seems harsh or un christian like, sorry, but what he did was grossly inhumane and un christian like.

    All JIMHO............................................. ....

  • #2
    Seems like a fair and rational assessment. The only thing I'll say is that I don't think the FO "sold out." ( not implying you said that). Sounds like it was a heavy decision and one they really wrestled with. It's funny because my respect for them went up several notches because I don't see them as the sell out type. It's easy to say he deserves a second chance and let someone else deal with it. It's tougher to stick your neck out on a someone they knew would present an obvious issue to their fan base.

    Anyway, good to read your opinion and let's hope the birds are good enough and healthy enough to not need him this year.
    Last edited by fly; 08-15-2009, 12:11 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Well put MD.

      I'm still sorting my feelings out. At this point, a sense of embarrassment and betrayal of trust predominates. If I could shut the door on the Eagles and walk away I would do so. But I can't. For me, being a fan of the Birds and the Phillies has never been a conscious/logical decision. It's just an immutable fact of my life.

      I believe I want the Birds to win a SB as much as the next guy. (The Phillies taught me great patience in regard to waiting for championships.) But I don't think I want them to win one this year if Vick were to play a significant role in the achievement.

      There are things in this life that we may want very badly but for which the price is just too high.

      Comment


      • #4
        TDK? Good post MD. It is mostly how I feel and have felt since the signing. This really isn't a hell of a lot different for me than owens was (not equating what the two people did in their life just the way I feel about them).
        I'm always happy to read what long time posters think and was glad to see what CHIP72 had to say. I'm curious what some others that have been around a long time feel. stevemc for instance, always seemed to have a level headed view.
        Wait until next year is a terrible philosophy
        Hope is not a strategy
        RIP

        Comment


        • #5
          Check my posts from yesterday, Nodak, you'll figure it out.

          Michael Vick is a sports celebrity. TDK is a better definition of who is, and how I will continue to refer to the vermin.
          http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

          Comment


          • #6
            Oh, I'm up on how you took the signing. I though I read every post for the last few days but I must have missed what TDK stands for..... the dog killer maybe?
            Wait until next year is a terrible philosophy
            Hope is not a strategy
            RIP

            Comment


            • #7
              Ding ding ding.....
              http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

              Comment


              • #8
                Man I wish this crap would just go away. I pick up the phone, I have to EXPLA
                IN MYSELF. I go out, I have to EXPLAIN MYSELF. Fuck you Lurie.
                "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just tell em what I do, 60. TDK will either be an examplary role model and animal rights activist, or he will be Eagle droppings.
                  http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    There's no poster that I have more respect for than MDFAN but I have to disagree with some of his points in this thread.

                    First though, my opinion was that Vick was an immature, self centered prick (before the dog fighting incident). As a dog lover I was appalled about his actions and when he was convicted, I would have been happy if he was in prison for 10 years instead of two.

                    About a year ago I was reading some interviews with his teammates that painted a different picture of my views about Vick. He was apparently a very hard worker and a very good teammate. After his release from prison I started to ponder the difference between character and upbringing.

                    What is "right or wrong" is not always a product of character, but is often a product of social upbringing. When I was very young racial segregation was not only legal but accepted in many parts of the country as proper. Though the acceptance of racial segregation was abhorrent to my family, I knew many people that accepted segregation as correct social behavior. Some of those people who believed in segregation in the '60's voted for Obama last year.

                    The question I'm posing is if Vick was brought up to believe that dog fighting was acceptable does that make him a person of poor character or a person who was brought up to believe in something that our "current" society now frowns on. Would this be an issue 100 years ago?

                    I learned how to behave from my parents, but I also learned how to behave though life experiences. I'm 56 years old and I'm sometime embarrassed by my actions in my early 20's. Unfortunately Vick needed to learn by going to prison.

                    My point is this. On a football only view, Vick would be a top 5 talent on any team. I really believe that the decision by the Eagles was not just a football decision, but a real attempt to help someone.

                    After listening to Reid and Lurie I have to say that I'm proud of the Eagles for this decision. Two years ago I wouldn't have said that, but I for one believe that this will be looked at as a good move for the Eagles and for Michael Vick.

                    I hope he doesn't disappoint us as a man or a player.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by FRESH View Post
                      Just tell em what I do, 60. TDK will either be an examplary role model and animal rights activist, or he will be Eagle droppings.
                      Right on, FRESH. These IMO are the likely outcomes of this whole deal. Maybe he should even join the ASPCA or even PETA as a sincere and fervent card-carrying member.

                      Good post too, GWE.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        GWE, thinking Dog fighting is OK is one thing. Stangling,electrocuting and torturing animals....who thinks that is OK or acceptable behavior? WHat sick-fuck part of our society promotes that?
                        http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          People are brought up with different values regarding animals (an people for that matter). I've been a vegetarian for over 35 years because I don't believe people should eat animals. That's my values.

                          Seeing what animals go though in a slaughterhouse I find vile and disgusting. It doesn't mean that my values about animals are the same as other. Again, I'm not justifying, I'm just saying that people think differently about animals.

                          Some think dogs are like family, some people think cows are too dumb to care if their head is being bashed in. Some people hunt for fun and some people believe that's murder. Again, its personal values and not necessarily right or wrong. It's just not that clear.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Green With Envy View Post
                            About a year ago I was reading some interviews with his teammates that painted a different picture of my views about Vick. He was apparently a very hard worker and a very good teammate. After his release from prison I started to ponder the difference between character and upbringing.

                            What is "right or wrong" is not always a product of character, but is often a product of social upbringing. When I was very young racial segregation was not only legal but accepted in many parts of the country as proper. Though the acceptance of racial segregation was abhorrent to my family, I knew many people that accepted segregation as correct social behavior. Some of those people who believed in segregation in the '60's voted for Obama last year.

                            The question I'm posing is if Vick was brought up to believe that dog fighting was acceptable does that make him a person of poor character or a person who was brought up to believe in something that our "current" society now frowns on. Would this be an issue 100 years ago?

                            I learned how to behave from my parents, but I also learned how to behave though life experiences. I'm 56 years old and I'm sometime embarrassed by my actions in my early 20's. Unfortunately Vick needed to learn by going to prison.
                            This is basically what one of the attorneys argued with regard to one of Vick's colleagues. Judge Hudson stated that it didn't temper their guilt, though. He said, "You may have thought this was sporting, but it was very callous and cruel. I hope you understand that now."
                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_New..._investigation

                            150 years ago, this would not have been an issue. See the "2nd chances" thread on this site, I posted some historical stuff from the ASPCA about the history of dog fighting in the United States. Even police departments participated, with dog fighting info appearing in the Police Gazette. Really (see the thread).

                            Having said that, and strictly IMO, this isn't the 1850's, and dog fighting's been against the law for a long, long time. So, even if TDK, like his friends, "honestly" didn't believe he was doing a bad thing, he certainly still knew that he was committing crimes, and he probably knew that crime was a felony in his state.

                            Now, if TDK thought the laws were unjust, there were legal ways to fight that....but I don't think that they expected animal cruelty laws to get overturned.

                            I mean, they have the "not guilty by reason of insanity" plea because some people, like John Hinckley Jr., are incapable of judging what's right and what's wrong. Those people may not go to jail, but they do end up spending time in mental hospitals for a while. Does TDK deserve some time in a mental hospital, in addition to prison? I doubt it, though I think that counseling for a long time would be a good idea.
                            Last edited by balto-eaglefan; 08-16-2009, 04:16 PM.
                            "Philly fans are great....It's the only place where you pull up on the bus and you've got the grandfather, the grandmother, the kids and the grandkids - everybody flicking you off. At other stadiums, they give you the thumbs-down. Here, they give you the middle finger.”
                            — Michael Strahan

                            "No one likes us, no one likes us, no one likes us, we don’t care, we’re from Philly, F—-ing Philly, No one likes us, we don’t care!”
                            - Jason Kelce with the best championship speech ever

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              From the wikipedia site on dog fighting in the U.S....notice that part of it is in-line with GWE's arguments (not that I agree with them though):
                              New York Animal Control Officer Kleinfelder says, "For pro athletes, it's not about the money.... Instead of boxers just beating up on each other, they want to see it go to the death, and with dogs they can let it go that far. To them, dogs are expendable."


                              Rhonda Evans is a sociologist and associate professor in the department of criminal justice at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette who has published four academic articles on dog fighting. She stated in a story published by the Palm Beach Post that she had found that owners of high-dollar fighting dogs spanned all walks of life and social classes, with a common link of "a machismo mentality." Evans said "For them, tough dogs are a symbol of manhood... and by winning, the dogs build up their owners' ego. They see it as a valid, legitimate sport that is no worse than boxing or football."


                              Rap and other urban music also seem to glorify dog fighting. Jay-Z shows dogs being prepared for a fight in the uncensored version of his music video, 99 Problems. A powerful-looking pit bull is on the cover of a CD by rapper DMX that is titled Grand Champ. "Grand Champ" is said to be a reference to a dog that has won five dogfights.


                              Madison Avenue advertising firms have capitalized on the same theme. When Nike was criticized about an ad featuring a growling pit bull and Rottweiler about to face off, the company denied the ad encourages dog fighting. The representative went on to state, however, "People have to understand the youth culture we cater to. Our market is the urban, edgy, hip-hop culture."
                              Last edited by balto-eaglefan; 08-16-2009, 04:12 PM.
                              "Philly fans are great....It's the only place where you pull up on the bus and you've got the grandfather, the grandmother, the kids and the grandkids - everybody flicking you off. At other stadiums, they give you the thumbs-down. Here, they give you the middle finger.”
                              — Michael Strahan

                              "No one likes us, no one likes us, no one likes us, we don’t care, we’re from Philly, F—-ing Philly, No one likes us, we don’t care!”
                              - Jason Kelce with the best championship speech ever

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X