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  • #46
    I wonder if the bulked up Carson lost some of his quickness and flexibility by bulking up and THEN thought since he was big and strong, he could laser throws and lost all aspects of touch. He couldn't throw a screen worth a fuck last season. His turnaround could be as simple as getting rid of some bulk
    We're looking for people that are fundamentally different,” vice president of player personnel Andy Weidl said Saturday night. “The love and passion for football, it's non-negotiable. They're caring, their character, they do the right thing persistently, and they have a relentless playing style that you can see on tape. The motor, it burns hot. You see them finishing plays. They have a team-first mentality. They're selfless individuals.

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    • #47
      I get it, if he didn't want to be here--- then there is the door... and maybe his legs or a concussion or he lost "his" coach could all be part of the problem--- but most everyone here seems to want to forget just how bad this team was last year. Due to injury and lack of talent, but IMM, Johnny U would have looked terrible last year. The O-Line set records in the number of different lines used. There was no reason for Wentz (or Hurts) to have even any chance at a good season. None. But the realist in me sees that at least Wentz -- at times-- has proven to be an elite QB. Hurts? 4 games, 1 and 3... he did nothing in my eyes any better than Wentz could have done with that clown show of a team last year.

      Again I do not know the $$'s and cents, never claimed to, frankly after the Skins got out of cap hell (and other teams) I never cared much about it.

      I was optimistic about Wentz, not nearly as optimistic with Hurts (hope I'm wrong) but I have seen many a guy have a good few games here and then be anointed the next "one".... only to watch them go by the wayside.

      So personally I am pissed that we got so little for Wentz... not saying based on the facts, we could have gotten a much better return, just very very very disappointed that we got virtually nothing for a 10 ten pick.

      As for the contract, don't recall much of anybody saying here that we should have waited --- at the time--- seemed like everybody agreed it was the right move and happy for it--- but that was a/the big problem in this whole fiasco.

      So, I am on the record as saying the trade was a mistake... and I know I will never be able to prove that. So I just have to live with it and move on.

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      • #48
        Yep, I am also on the record with trade being a mistake. Owner should have gotten involved and forced adult behavior on all sides.
        Russian reporters to Bobby Clarke: Can you imagine hockey without fights?
        Robert Earle Clarke's response: Can you imagine vodka without alcohol?

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        • #49
          I can't argue anything that you said MD. The team sucked the last 2 years due to injuries. When they drafted Hurts that had to effect him. I wanted him back too but i understand why they didn't get more for him. QB hell is back.
          "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

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          • #50
            On Carson’s contract... at first I didn’t like it because my thought was play through the 5th year option and then decide due to injuries and uneven play. However, then we I considered the importance of “going first,” I liked it because Goff, Dak, Mahomes, Lamar Jackson and even Trubisky were in the line for a new contract and the thought was it was gonna go up for almost each one. So I went from not liking it to understanding why and liking it pretty quickly.

            who could have predicted all the injuries which contributed to Wentz poor play but also all the soap opera stuff and Wentz regression in terms of pocket presence and awareness. Cause that was real too.
            You know Darren if you'd have told me 10 years ago that someday I was going to solve the world's energy problems I'd have said your crazy.... now lets drop this big ball of oil out the window.

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            • #51
              I am there with you guys, this trade is a bad idea! I was a big time pro-Wentz guy and I thought their aggressiveness to resign him early was a good idea. What I don’t get is their 180 on him before that contract even kicked in. There is far more going on here than we know right now. Some day it will come out. Something pushed them to use a high pick on a QB just months after eagerly signing him to a record deal and 9 months later trading him for what, just a year ago, would have seemed like the worst trade in team history.
              Official Driver of the Eagles Bandwagon!!!
              Bleedin' Green since birth!

              "Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many." Mike Willey

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              • #52
                There's a lot of blame being cast about here, and I see people are blaming Howie, they're blaming Doug, or whatever. But, maybe the real problem is Wentz himself. I didn't like the Hurts pick. Hated in in fact. I called it the worst pick in the history of the franchise in real time. But, no one, not even Howie with his questionable drafting record, makes a pick like that out of the blue. As far as Wentz is concerned, maybe it wasn't so much about the fact that they drafted Hurts, but why they drafted him that got him so upset. Like I said in another thread, perhaps the real, underlying problem here is that Wentz is an insufferable douche with a delicate psyche, and his personality, and approach are the primary reasons the guy's game has gone in the shitter. In Hurts they saw a guy who was the antithesis of that, and that's why they picked him in the second round.

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                • #53
                  EB that is certainly as possible as anything. Myself, I am of the belief they didn't handle him well from the start. They lauded him as "THE" guy after one year. Before and after the draft Gruden and Mayock both were saying how smart he was. I read where he was asked about the people they were thinking of drafting after a year. I read where he was in on the offense and was given lots of latitude because he read defenses so well, because he ran a pro style offense at NDSU and was so prepared coming into the league. Fans, ownership, media were fawning all over him. They way people acted it was like he was a 10-15 year vet that had already proven themselves. Maybe they didn't do a good job keeping a young player in check. Maybe they gave him too much rope.
                  Just saying I wish I was a fly on the wall because I would love to know what happened because there are lots and lots of theories including he is fragile
                  "Don't look between the lines for stuff that isn't there" Schwartz
                  RIP

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                  • #54
                    The Eagles have done so much to accommodate Carson Wentz. First, they chose him over Nick Foles, after Foles had won the Super Bowl, and revived the team and got them into the playoffs. I was one of, if not the only persons around here who felt that the Eagles might, just might, have been better off keeping Foles and his reduced contract, along with the picks they could get in a Wentz trade. No. Wentz was the future. Everyone was assured. They fired Al Groh, and apparently the fact that he and Wentz clashed had a lot to do with it. They gave Wentz a monster contract full of guaranteed money, only to have the guy completely tank. Along with feuding with the HC. A HC who was then fired, in order to bring in coaches that would be more acceptable to Wentz. Who still, after all that, was not satisfied, and all but demanded a trade. Forcing the Eagles to finally have to make a deal when his value was at it's absolute lowest. Carson Wentz is one of, if not the worst thing that has happened to the Eagles since I've been a fan. And, I'm done blaming the Eagles. Carson Wentz is an insufferable douche, who took the Eagles for millions of dollars, while showing no inclination to step up, be a man, and do what was necessary to correct his failings and become what he was paid to be. And then whined his way out of town, forcing the worst trade in Philadelphia Eagles history.

                    Fuck him.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Eaglebreath View Post
                      The Eagles have done so much to accommodate Carson Wentz. First, they chose him over Nick Foles, after Foles had won the Super Bowl, and revived the team and got them into the playoffs. I was one of, if not the only persons around here who felt that the Eagles might, just might, have been better off keeping Foles and his reduced contract, along with the picks they could get in a Wentz trade. No. Wentz was the future. Everyone was assured. They fired Al Groh, and apparently the fact that he and Wentz clashed had a lot to do with it. They gave Wentz a monster contract full of guaranteed money, only to have the guy completely tank. Along with feuding with the HC. A HC who was then fired, in order to bring in coaches that would be more acceptable to Wentz. Who still, after all that, was not satisfied, and all but demanded a trade. Forcing the Eagles to finally have to make a deal when his value was at it's absolute lowest. Carson Wentz is one of, if not the worst thing that has happened to the Eagles since I've been a fan. And, I'm done blaming the Eagles. Carson Wentz is an insufferable douche, who took the Eagles for millions of dollars, while showing no inclination to step up, be a man, and do what was necessary to correct his failings and become what he was paid to be. And then whined his way out of town, forcing the worst trade in Philadelphia Eagles history.

                      Fuck him.
                      I think that EB was on your side too ND.
                      "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

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                      • #56
                        EB... I'm not sure I'm at the "Fuck Him" level but due to a variety of reasons I was ready to move on. Hurts is practicing his ass off. He appears to be doing the same sorts of things that Josh Allen did last offseason to work on his accuracy. We know the athleticism is there. I wonder about the arm strength but the guys that know... meaning the "beat guys" like Reuben Frank. Les Bowen, etc., don't seem to be concerned about his arm strength. I think its in line with the average NFL QB. I am not sure there is a throw he can't make other than a 70 yard downfield throw that maybe only Pat Mahomes and a few others can make.
                        You know Darren if you'd have told me 10 years ago that someday I was going to solve the world's energy problems I'd have said your crazy.... now lets drop this big ball of oil out the window.

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                        • #57
                          Has there ever been a year when a team fired both it's SB winning HC and it's franchise QB? This FO is really screwed up.
                          "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

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                          • #58
                            Philadelphia: Has the Lombardi Trophy been fired, or traded?


                            Three years ago this month, after the Eagles’ stunning 41-33 Super Bowl victory over New England, I wrote a deep dive about the winning touchdown in the game—Wristband 145, I called it, because that’s what coach Doug Pederson called into the ear of quarterback Nick Foles before the play. Foles, super-subbing for injured franchise QB Carson Wentz, called the play next to “145” on the band: “Gun left trey, open buster star motion . . . 383 X follow Y slant.” The call resulted in a 11-yard TD pass to Zach Ertz, giving Philly a 38-33 lead with 2:21 left.

                            The play was not in the original 194-play game plan of the Eagles. Early in Super Bowl week, receivers coach Mike Groh went to offensive coordinator Frank Reich with an idea he thought would flummox the Patriots: a single receiver (Zach Ertz) to the left, three receivers (Trey Burton, Nelson Agholor, Alshon Jeffery) in a triangle to the right, a back (Corey Clement) in “star,” or sprinting, motion behind the triangle. One receiver to the left, four to the right. The Eagles, through Reich’s and Groh’s research, thought the Patriots would cover Ertz alone. Pederson called it. Groh and Reich were right—Ertz was singled. That touchdown gave the Eagles their first Lombardi Trophy in franchise history.

                            Look at the key men in that play, and in that offensive powerhouse, who I just mentioned. And look at what’s happened in 36 months:

                            Doug Pederson: Gone. Fired last month after going 23-27-1 in the 51 games since the Super Bowl.

                            Nick Foles: Gone. Signed as a free agent in Jacksonville in 2019, traded to Chicago in 2020. Status for 2021 uncertain.

                            Carson Wentz: Gone. Traded to Indianapolis—after finishing 35th of 36 QBs in passer rating in 2020 and being benched by Pederson.

                            Zach Ertz: Very likely gone. Cap-strapped Eagles could save $4.7 million on the cap by trading or releasing him.

                            Mike Groh: Gone. Promoted to offensive coordinator in 2018, fired after 2019 season. Now receivers coach for Indianapolis.

                            Frank Reich: Gone. Departed two weeks after Super Bowl win to be Indianapolis’ head coach.

                            Trey Burton: Gone. Signed free-agent deal with Chicago in 2018. Now tight end in Indianapolis.

                            Nelson Agholor: Gone. Signed free-agent deal with Las Vegas in 2020.

                            Alshon Jeffery: Very likely gone. Should be a cap casualty this spring after missing 19 games due to injury in last three years.

                            Corey Clement: Likely gone. Unrestricted free agent. Buried on Eagles’ depth chart. Looking for a better role elsewhere.

                            The team as a whole, poof! Gone, into thin air. Doug Pederson’s last four years: Super Bowl win, playoffs, playoffs, 4-11-1 . . . fired. Whaaaaat? What has happened in sports?! Assuming Ertz and Jeffery are let go, all six starting skill players from the Super Bowl, gone. Defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz, 14 years younger than Super Bowl champ Bruce Arians, retired at 54. Leader of the secondary, Malcolm Jenkins, gone. Special-teams captain Chris Maragos, retired. There might be a team in the 55-year history of Super Bowl that has dissolved faster than these Philadelphia Eagles, but I can’t think of one.
                            Peter King's Football Morning In America column leads with Deshaun Watson and what it might take for interested teams (Jets? Panthers?) to trade for him.

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                            • #59
                              [QUOTE=Jukin;n535807

                              I want him gone and gone NOW!!!![/QUOTE]

                              This!

                              Over time, the owner has the ultimate responsibility for the team on the field and it's performance. Owners don't fire themselves very often. In every real sense then, the General Manager has responsibility for the composition of the team and for the coaching staff that directs the team. With some not terribly noteworthy exceptions, drafting, general player acquisition, player development, coaching (with exception of the year the planets aligned and they caught lightening in a bottle and for which I will always be grateful) Howie's run as GM, IMO, has ranged from mediocre (at best) to dreadful. In terms of talent, cap situation, proven coaching talent, and realistic expectations for seriously competitive on field performance in the next 2 or 3 years, Roseman has presented us with a certified fucking dumpster fire. And yet, he remains.

                              What qualifications did Roseman ever present that might lead Lurie to believe that he merited the GM job other than effectively managing the cap for a few years. Having "dreamed" of being an NFL GM since his early teens somehow strikes me as a little thin if that's the extent of your resume. Chasing his dream with everything he had somehow, to the best of our knowledge, never quite moved Howie to actually find a playing field and buckle a chin strap.

                              It's always seemed to me that there was a message worth contemplating in that little vacancy in Howie's resume.



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