Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

[Vote for Kalas]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

Can we put the following to rest?

Use of the terms:

- "McNabb Haters"
- "Anti-McNabb contingent"
- "McNabb Bashers"
- "People who think it's all McNabb's fault..."

Honestly, for the most part, we're a bunch of frustrated fans who want nothing more than to see McNabb succeed. To keep hearing the terms used above is an insult to my fan-dome (fanhood, fanness, whatever). I bleed green and have been hoping for a McNabb led SB winner since the Eagles drafted him. Are there some bashers out there? Perhaps a few....but please don't apply those labels to the 90% of Eagles fans on this board who feel like McNabb has lost it. Why does that make you a basher? a hater? Can we not criticize anymore?

I enjoy the debate of mobility, decision making, big play ability, etc., but too often it comes down to "bashing." Enough is enough.

I agree. The labels are silly and need to be put to rest.

I can understand, however, where they come from. When people post that McNabb sucks without any evidence which happened in this very thread, I can see why that sentiment could be assumed.

No one is above criticism, but rather it is a matter of perspective. If people who think McNabb sucks could express that in a bit more eloquent fashion or perhaps provide some convincing evidence, perhaps we could drop the labels for those types of opinions.

[stocknowledge]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

I think we can also refrain from calling Feeley, "I. P." He may not be the most talented QB on the team, but he deserves our respect.

[Vote for Kalas]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

When things were going well, McNabb got most of the praise and was rewarded with the largest salary. It was only fitting, because his position on the team is the most important, and he deserved the praise and the money for his play was stellar.

Now, when his play is what is the single primarily reason for the team's poor performance, he deserves the most blame.

Seriously, with good QB play, we would have won most of the close games that we lost.

Sorry, but this is somewhat untrue....

McNabb was attacked, mocked and hammered since the day he was drafted by media/fans and other external sources...most of them mis-directed their anger at the organization at him or simply were out to stir controversy in order to sell their wares, but it has never stopped and has only grown worse as the organization's struggles have increased.

McNabb never has stated or has it been true that he has been all or even the main reason the team won...he has always been a team player. He played very well and probably is the best QB we have had in Eagles history, but he always deflected the praise and supported his teammates and the organization.

Now, that the organization has struggled more than most of his career here, McNabb has had to state again he is a team player and not deserving of all or even the main part of the blame. Westbrook, Dawk and others have said the same just as they did when the organization was winning.

The QB cannot play ST which are quite weak on this team or play D which has been up and down all year...he also does not call the plays which have raised questions all season. It is easy to target one position or player in a team, but losses and wins are very very rarely about one player. It is almost always a team playing well together in all facets.

[Foles4SB]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

McNabb didn't play great, but he made some plays as well. Receivers had trouble getting open and the line played out of sync for most of the game; part of that was Marty and Andy getting out coached by Spagnuola.

I was at the game, and Mcnabb played ATROCIOUS. I have NEVER, ever seen a QB hold onto the ball that long on such a high% of plays. The receivers clearly have to be getting frustrated at Mcnabb. He can't even make plays anymore on the broken plays where he is running towards the line of scrimmage. A couple of the catches by Curtis were on terrible throws...he threw outside to Reggie Brown when he should have thrown inside. Please, for the love of Pete, move on to Kevin Kolb immediately.

[Foles4SB]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

McNabb HELD THE BALL TOO LONG YET AGAIN on many pass attempts.
He made the Gints DL look good by not throwing the ball and
being sacked after 3 seconds or more. He did not trust his WRs
to make plays by throwing into tight situations. Almost the opposite
of Eli, the "unstoppable", who chucks the ball near where Burress
is supposed to be and hopes his WR makes a play. Reid put the
ball in McNabb's hands to win and #5 did not have enough to do it.
And that includes the guys #5 is throwing to, we do not have enough
playmakers at WR or TE. Reggie Brown needs to learn how to
run upfield instead of going sideways. And LJ was MIA for most
of the time he was in the game.

Again here I disagree a bit--- IMO the Wr's sucked today, not all on McNabb. IMO, he looked quicker and more escapable and sometimes you have to give the other guy a bit of credit.

I was at the game and have a better vantage point than you, and I'm telling you, it is Mcnabb. He rushes throws when he doesn't have to, and holds onto the ball too long when he doesn't have time. We wouldn't know if the receivers were open because the QB never gives them a chance to do squat.

[sfphillyfan]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

When things were going well, McNabb got most of the praise and was rewarded with the largest salary. It was only fitting, because his position on the team is the most important, and he deserved the praise and the money for his play was stellar.

Now, when his play is what is the single primarily reason for the team's poor performance, he deserves the most blame.

Seriously, with good QB play, we would have won most of the close games that we lost.

Sorry, but this is somewhat untrue....

McNabb was attacked, mocked and hammered since the day he was drafted by media/fans and other external sources...most of them mis-directed their anger at the organization at him or simply were out to stir controversy in order to sell their wares, but it has never stopped and has only grown worse as the organization's struggles have increased.

McNabb never has stated or has it been true that he has been all or even the main reason the team won...he has always been a team player. He played very well and probably is the best QB we have had in Eagles history, but he always deflected the praise and supported his teammates and the organization.

Now, that the organization has struggled more than most of his career here, McNabb has had to state again he is a team player and not deserving of all or even the main part of the blame. Westbrook, Dawk and others have said the same just as they did when the organization was winning.

The QB cannot play ST which are quite weak on this team or play D which has been up and down all year...he also does not call the plays which have raised questions all season. It is easy to target one position or player in a team, but losses and wins are very very rarely about one player. It is almost always a team playing well together in all facets.

Is this Mama McNabb? Come on, I saw 5 jerseys everywhere until recently. In his heydey, mcnabb's jersey was huge. I think it trailed #20 but we've always been a defense first town. The majority of fans were fully on board with mcnabb.

[stocknowledge]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

I will agree that McNabb did not deserve the harsh welcome that he was given here. I also agree that Donovan is probably the best QB that the Eagles have had in the modern era.

However, he IS the single player who is mainly responsible for our poor performance this year. Don't try to sugar coat it by saying that he was "inconsistent." McNabb had only one good game this year, and it was against Detroit at home - a team that the Redskins beat a few weeks after us by a score of 49-3.

As I stated in a previous thread, I have been a big fan of McNabb since his freshman season at Syracuse. I have also come to his defense numerous times in this forum - even when JRJ asked us at the beginning of this season if we still had faith in McNabb. I believed then that McNabb's poor performances were the result of rust, and that he would improve as the season progressed. Unfortunately, I have not seen any improvement in McNabb's play. In fact, he now appears slower and more hesitant than he did at the start of the season.

After today, you would have to say that McNabb is probably the worst QB in our division, because even the "Unstoppable" Eli Manning appeared more confident and better able to make accurate throws to his receivers.

If you look at things objectively, you would have to say that even the Eagles' front office has had their doubts about McNabb's abilities. They certainly wouldn't have used their first pick in the draft to select a QB, if they hadn't seen things on tape which told them that DMac wasn't going to continue to perform at the same level of play. They anticipated his demise even before we did. Unfortunately, it probably came even faster than they expected.

[Pliny]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

McNabb didn't play great, but he made some plays as well. Receivers had trouble getting open and the line played out of sync for most of the game; part of that was Marty and Andy getting out coached by Spagnuola.

I was at the game, and Mcnabb played ATROCIOUS. I have NEVER, ever seen a QB hold onto the ball that long on such a high% of plays. The receivers clearly have to be getting frustrated at Mcnabb. He can't even make plays anymore on the broken plays where he is running towards the line of scrimmage. A couple of the catches by Curtis were on terrible throws...he threw outside to Reggie Brown when he should have thrown inside. Please, for the love of Pete, move on to Kevin Kolb immediately.

Yeah, both Curtis and Westy bailed out Donovan on a couple of third downs. Both passes were over their heads and they had to really snag them.

A big part of me is not yet ready to throw Kolb to the wolves. But, we basically have 3 worthless games to see what he can do. I have a feeling that he will see action in at least one of those games.

[MDFAN]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

I think we can also refrain from calling Feeley, "I. P." He may not be the most talented QB on the team, but he deserves our respect.

What???????

It was a nickname given him before he ever threw a pass for the Eagles the first time around, it wasn't disrespectful and it isn't today.

Doo Doo Brown?

Simy, Pinky Mahe................all the names these guys were called.............Gimme a break.

[Pliny]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

From Donovan:

"the Giants played a "soft shell" and didn't give anything deep".

Is there any question as to why the Giants did this ?

The quick slants were there all day. The problem, is that your QB has to hit the receivers quickly, accurately and consistently underneath the zone, before the defense is going to change.

I wish JRJ was around to comment on this.

Until Donovan shows he can consistently make the quick throws, nothing will change. This is where we stand today

[MDFAN]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

"However, he IS the single player who is mainly responsible for our poor performance this year."

Totally disagree!

"he now appears slower "

Totally disagree!

[Vote for Kalas]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

I will agree that McNabb did not deserve the harsh welcome that he was given here. I also agree that Donovan is probably the best QB that the Eagles have had in the modern era.

However, he IS the single player who is mainly responsible for our poor performance this year. Don't try to sugar coat it by saying that he was "inconsistent." McNabb had only one good game this year, and it was against Detroit at home - a team that the Redskins beat a few weeks after us by a score of 49-3.

As I stated in a previous thread, I have been a big fan of McNabb since his freshman season at Syracuse. I have also come to his defense numerous times in this forum - even when JRJ asked us at the beginning of this season if we still had faith in McNabb. I believed then that McNabb's poor performances were the result of rust, and that he would improve as the season progressed. Unfortunately, I have not seen any improvement in McNabb's play. In fact, he now appears slower and more hesitant than he did at the start of the season.

After today, you would have to say that McNabb is probably the worst QB in our division, because even the "Unstoppable" Eli Manning appeared more confident and better able to make accurate throws to his receivers.

If you look at things objectively, you would have to say that even the Eagles' front office has had their doubts about McNabb's abilities. They certainly wouldn't have used their first pick in the draft to select a QB, if they hadn't seen things on tape which told them that DMac wasn't going to continue to perform at the same level of play. They anticipated his demise even before we did. Unfortunately, it probably came even faster than they expected.

Again, we seem to be talking past each other, but I'll try again....

It was more than a "harsh welcome" McNabb got and everyone knows it...he has been bashed and hammered since Day 1 and most of it has been unfair and unwarranted. People have jumped on every facial expression, spoken word, hand gesture and action of his to justify their agenda...it has NEVER stopped.

If you think McNabb's only "good" game was against Detroit and that Detroit sucks, then our discussion is probably over...that is ludicrous. You might want to check his production again. If you missed his improvement before he got injured again in the Miami game, I am sorry, but he was definitely improving steadily and several commented on it here and elsewhere.

The Eagles always draft ahead of time and QB is no different...it does not mean they think McNabb is done or he stinks or anything else, but that they want to groom someone for the future WHEN they want that to begin...they were in negotiations with McNabb on another extension just last year! Why would they be doing that if they thought he stunk?

If you think Eli is a better QB, then again we probably should stop debating...if you have written McNabb off entirely, so be it.

[Vote for Kalas]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

When things were going well, McNabb got most of the praise and was rewarded with the largest salary. It was only fitting, because his position on the team is the most important, and he deserved the praise and the money for his play was stellar.

Now, when his play is what is the single primarily reason for the team's poor performance, he deserves the most blame.

Seriously, with good QB play, we would have won most of the close games that we lost.

Sorry, but this is somewhat untrue....

McNabb was attacked, mocked and hammered since the day he was drafted by media/fans and other external sources...most of them mis-directed their anger at the organization at him or simply were out to stir controversy in order to sell their wares, but it has never stopped and has only grown worse as the organization's struggles have increased.

McNabb never has stated or has it been true that he has been all or even the main reason the team won...he has always been a team player. He played very well and probably is the best QB we have had in Eagles history, but he always deflected the praise and supported his teammates and the organization.

Now, that the organization has struggled more than most of his career here, McNabb has had to state again he is a team player and not deserving of all or even the main part of the blame. Westbrook, Dawk and others have said the same just as they did when the organization was winning.

The QB cannot play ST which are quite weak on this team or play D which has been up and down all year...he also does not call the plays which have raised questions all season. It is easy to target one position or player in a team, but losses and wins are very very rarely about one player. It is almost always a team playing well together in all facets.

Is this Mama McNabb? Come on, I saw 5 jerseys everywhere until recently. In his heydey, mcnabb's jersey was huge. I think it trailed #20 but we've always been a defense first town. The majority of fans were fully on board with mcnabb.

The contention was McNabb took the most praise/credit when they were winning and should therefore take the most blame/criticism when they are losing...

Again, like the 4000 times before this including the many times McNabb and teammates/coaches have stated this, NO ONE PLAYER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR WINNING AND LOSING. IT IS A TEAM GAME.

McNabb never took or wanted all or even alot of the credit when winning....he always credited his coaches and teammates and stated it was a team game. He has done the same while they are losing by saying he does not take all or even alot of the blame. Westbrook, Dawk, Reid and others have stated the same many times.

Many media/fans have always disliked McNabb from Day 1 and certainly not hidden that fact ever....it is what it is. Call me an apologist again or Mama McNabb again or whatever other labels/names you want, but McNabb and the others are dead right IMO and know what team means.

[Foles4SB]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

The MCNABB APOLOGISTS have clearly gone off the deep end. After a big win vs. Minnesota, Mcnabb comes home and loses to the Bears. Big win at Washington, Mcnabb comes home and lays a giant egg vs. Miami. And after the AJ Feeley debacle vs. Seattle, you'd think Mcnabb would like his chance to reclaim the city. Instead, another horrible performance. Micah Warren from gcobb.com has become the biggest Mcnabb apologist on the planet. Listen to this yesterday.

"I like that there were no INT's this week. Rag on Mcnabb if you like, he doesn't throw any picks. I also liked that he seemed to have some spring in his step. Mcnabb is getting better right now people, not worse. His scrambling reminded me of Donovan past."

Then he says "I hate this nonsense of Donovan holding onto the ball too long, then they complain about Feeley's picks."

That was the extent of his criticism of Donovan. I think MDFan is getting close to the same category as well as others. This thread has become unreadable to me...I can't even sift through it anymore.

[Luzinski's Gut]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

This is my last post on this thread.

McNabb has not had a good year. That much can be said with certainty. Yesterday was the first December game for him in three years - not good. He's had two great games this year: home against Detroit and at Washington. He's been mediocre or bad the rest of the time. His stats last year before the injury in the Titans game look much better than what we have seen this year. See here for a comparison:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/g ... 0.htm#2007

He has two major weapons on this team in Curtis and Westbrook and one decent complimentary player in Brown. The rest of the team is mediocre or crap on offense. He's suffered from not having a good bond with any TE's this year. There are no good TE's in FA this year and I don't see any college guys coming in here and lighting it up.

He costs the Birds $9.6M against the cap next year. Is he worth that at this point and is there a better solution in the form of Kolb? Those are the two questions the Birds are going to have to deal with in the offseason.

There are four guys the Birds have to make decisions about that can radically affect the outlook of this team next year. They are Kearse, Howard, McNabb and Dawkins.

Kearse costs $8.6M against the cap plus a $4M dead space hit if he's cut.
Howard costs $3.2M against the cap plus a $2.1M dead space hit if he's cut
Dawkins cost $2M against the cap with no dead space hit.
McNabb costs the Birds $9.6M against the cap next year.

Folks, that's over $20M tied up in four guys who are either declining or have declined.

Also - from what I can tell, LJ Smith, MacDookie and Tapeh come off the cap because of free agency - about $3.1M worth of room. We are between $5-6M under right now. Plus you have to add the Bannerization effects of Mahe and one other dude who count as around $8M against the cap this year (and they won't be back - this was reported last week on WIP). So without the big 4, there will be about $17-18M available in FA.

We are going though some changes.