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  • Frank: Most overrated and underrated Eagles: WRs ... Pinkston Underrated

    Let the debate of Pinkston begin yet again!

    http://www.csnphilly.com/06/13/11/bF...599&feedID=692

    Frank: Most overrated and underrated Eagles: WRs

    Monday, June 13, 2011
    Posted: 2 p.m.

    By Reuben Frank
    CSNPhilly.com

    Welcome to our fifth edition of this summer’s Most Overrated and Underrated Eagles of All Time.

    This week we look at Eagles wide receivers. Remember, we're not looking for the worst receivers in Eagles history (Michael Timpson? Billy McMullen?) or the biggest busts (Freddie Mitchell? Mike Bellamy?). We’re looking instead for guys who history has not judged quite correctly.

    Next Monday: Defensive linemen.

    Overrated

    Cris Carter
    Cris Carter as a starter with the Eagles: 42 catches for 683 yards and 8 1/2 TDs per season.

    James Thrash as a starter with the Eagles: 55 catches for 675 yards and five TDs per season.

    That pretty much says it all. Carter went on to enjoy great success with the Vikings, but here? His numbers as an Eagle are pretty similar to those of James Thrash, the poster child for wide receiving mediocrity. He was a marginal receiver with a drug problem and only rarely showed glimpses of the player he would later become.

    Carter spent three seasons with the Eagles. He rarely played as a rookie, and in his two years as a starter, he averaged only 2.6 catches for 42 yards per game.

    The last 11 games of 1988, his first year as a starter with the Eagles, Carter averaged 40.6 yards per game. The last 13 games of 1989, his last year as a starter, he averaged 27 yards per game.

    In two playoff games in an Eagles uniform, Carter had three catches for 33 yards.

    Buddy Ryan got blasted for years for releasing Carter before the 1990 season and famously pronouncing, “All he ever did was catch touchdowns.” But the truth was, when Carter first tested positive, Buddy told him he would cut him if it happened again. It happened again, and Carter was gone.

    To this day, Carter credits Buddy Ryan for saving his career and maybe his life. He’s spoken for two decades now about how he got help for his addiction problem thanks to Ryan.

    Carter went on to enjoy a terrific (but still overrated) career with the Vikings. With the Eagles, he was nothing more than James Thrash with a drug problem.

    Calvin Williams
    Freddy and Calvin. Calvin and Freddy. They came in together in the 1990 draft, they played together through the whole Rich Kotite Era and they left almost together, both playing their last full season in Philly in 1995.

    Freddy and Calvin. Calvin and Freddy. It’s impossible to think of one without the other. Their names are forever linked in Eagles lore.

    The thing is, they weren’t equals. Fred Barnett was a two-time 1,000-yard receiver and a Pro Bowl pick. Calvin Williams was neither.

    Calvin has kind of piggybacked on Freddie’s success, but Calvin Williams was no Fred Barnett. In fact, in his six full seasons with the Eagles, he averaged 48 catches for 639 yards. For the sake of comparison, Todd Pinkston – who Eagles fans love to hate – averaged 43 catches for 659 yards in his four full seasons.

    So the universally despised Pinkston averaged 20 more yards per season than the revered Williams.

    During his six years as an Eagles starter, Williams ranked 33rd in the NFL in catches and 30th in receiving yards and 37th in yards per catch. Williams did have a nice knack for getting into the end zone, and his 34 TD catches are fifth-most in franchise history.

    But as far as overall production, the reality just doesn’t match up to the perception. And that’s the essence of what overrated-underrated is all about.

    Kenny Jackson
    It was just a few weeks into the 1990 season, and legendary Eagles receiver Mike Quick had suffered a broken leg in a win over the Vikings at the Vet. At the time, we didn’t know Quick would never play football again.

    All we knew at the time is what Randall Cunningham said after the game.

    Asked how the Eagles could possibly manage the rest of the year without Quick, Cunningham grinned broadly and told us that everything would be OK because ... “I heard Kenny Jackson’s coming back.”

    In Randall’s mind, Kenny Jackson was a star and his return would help offset the loss of the peerless Mike Quick. Jackson had been the fourth pick in the 1984 draft, and Jackson and Cunningham immediately hit it off in 1985, Cunningham’s rookie year.

    Jackson was big and fast and looked like a star. Only problem was he wasn’t very good. In four years as a starter, Jackson managed just 117 catches for 2,067 yards and 10 touchdowns. That ranked him 84th in the NFL during that span in catches, 51st in yards and 68th in touchdowns. As a starter.

    As unproductive as Jackson was early in his career, things quickly got far worse. He lost his starting job in 1988 and since he was reluctant to go over the middle, he really had no function as a third receiver. The Eagles released him in 1988 and after opening an overrated restaurant in South Jersey, he spent some time with the Oilers before Quick got hurt in 1990 and Buddy Ryan brought him back on Cunningham’s urging.

    How did Jackson do replacing Quick the rest of the year? One catch.

    In fact, Jackson caught just nine passes without a TD in his final four NFL seasons. But was he overrated? In Randall’s eyes he sure was!

    Underrated

    Irving Fryar
    His name is rarely included when the greatest receivers in Eagles history are mentioned. Quick. Carmichael. T.O.

    The numbers say he belongs.

    Fryar came to the Eagles late in his career. He was 34 years old and entering the 13th season in a career that had some highlights but had been somewhat disappointing. But he saved the best for last, and became a huge weapon on the 1995 and 1996 Eagle playoff teams.

    After averaging 46 catches for 743 yards and five TDs in his first 12 NFL seasons, Fryar averaged 74 catches for 1,022 yards and 6 1/2 TDs in three seasons with the Eagles. And he did it despite playing with constant turmoil at quarterback – Ty Detmer, Rodney Peete, Bobby Hoying and Koy Detmer were the four starters Fryar played with. Not exactly Randall, McNabb and Vick.

    Nonetheless, Fryar is responsible for two of the greatest receiving seasons in Eagles history, with 88 catches for 1,195 yards in 1996 and 86 for 1,316 in 1997. No other Eagle wideout has ever caught more than 78 passes in a season, and Fryar caught mid-80s twice in a row. In receiving yards, those two years rank second and sixth in franchise history. Only Mike Quick has ever had more yards in a season than Fryar.

    Fryar is one of only three wideouts in NFL history with consecutive 85-catch seasons after his 33rd birthday and one of only three in history with consecutive seasons with at least 1,150 receiving yards as well. Only three NFL receivers had more yards during that two-year span – Rob Moore, Herman Moore and Jimmy Smith. Only six had more TDs.

    Early in his career, Fryar was better known for his off-the-field problems than what he did on the field with the Patriots. By the time he got to Philly, he had become a model citizen, but his reputation was hard to shake, and because of that, Fryar is never considered one of the all-time greats. But when he retired in 2000, Fryar ranked fifth in NFL history in catches, seventh in yards and ninth in touchdown catches.

    The Eagles didn’t have much during the late 1990s. But they had the Rev in his mid-30s, which turned out to be the prime of his career.

    Harold Carmichael
    When people look back today at Harold Carmichael’s career, they make the mistake of putting his accomplishments in terms of modern-day receivers. Carmichael “only” had three 1,000-yard seasons. Carmichael “only” had more than 60 catches twice and “only” scored double-digit touchdowns once.

    You have to remember, though, that most of Carmichael’s career – 1971 through 1984 – was during the NFL’s dead-ball era, when receivers weren’t putting up anything close to the the kind of crazy numbers they’re putting up now.

    The simple truth is that during Carmichael’s prime – the nine-year span from 1973 through 1981 -- Carmichael was the best receiver in the NFL.

    By far.

    Nobody in the NFL had more receptions. Carmichael had 33 more than Ahmad Rashad.

    Nobody in the NFL had more yards. Carmichael had 357 more than Cliff Branch.

    Nobody in the NFL had more touchdowns. Carmichael had 12 more than Branch.

    When he retired in 1984, Carmichael ranked fourth in NFL history in receptions, sixth in yards and sixth in touchdown catches and all but one of the guys ahead of him in any of those three categories have since been inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

    And if you’re too young to remember how sure-handed Carmichael was, stop by training camp at Lehigh this summer (if there is training camp this summer). Carmichael, who’s the Eagles’ director of player programs these days, will be out there. And he still catches everything thrown his way.

    “The rest of my body is about 90,” Carmichael said recently. “My hands are still 21.”

    Todd Pinkston
    To boil Todd Pinkston’s entire career down to one unfortunate incident in Washington when it appeared that he was shying away from contact is unfair to a guy who proved time and time again that despite weighing just 165 or 170 pounds he wasn’t afraid of contact and didn’t mind getting hit.

    It’s not fair to focus on one negative play in anybody’s career and dismiss everything else the guy has done.

    Pinkston spent five years with the Eagles, and although he was never a star, he was a valuable deep threat and one of Donovan McNabb’s most trusted receivers on several very successful playoff teams.

    Pinkston’s best statistical year was 2002, when he caught 60 passes for nearly 800 yards and seven touchdowns, ninth-most in the NFL. Not terrible.

    But his most valuable season was 2004, when he caught so many deep balls from McNabb that he led the NFL in yards per catch and helped open up the middle of the field for Terrell Owens to have a career year.

    From 2001 through 2004, Pinkston’s four years as a starter, only three NFL players – Eddie Kennison, Plaxico Burress and Amani Toomer – had a higher yards-per-catch than Pinkston’s 15.1. And the Eagles went to the NFC Championship Game all four years.

    The biggest misconception about Pinkston is that he wasn’t tough. Forget that one play in Washington for a moment and ask yourself this: How many times did the scrawny Pinkston take a vicious shot from an opposing defensive back and not pop right back up and flip the ball to the ref?

    None.

    Pinkston filled an important role with the Eagles during their string of four consecutive NFC Championship Game appearances, catching McNabb’s bombs and stretching defenses.

    Pinkston also came up big in big games. From 2001 through 2004, only two players – Hines Ward and Troy Brown – had more postseason catches and yards than Pinkston and only Deion Branch and Reggie Wayne had a higher yards-per-catch average in the playoffs among players with at least 30 catches. In the Super Bowl, he was 4 for 82 in the first half before the doctors wouldn’t let him play in the second half because of extreme dehydration. He tore his Achilles at Lehigh the next summer and never played again.

    Pinkston was never a great player. But he was better than you remember.

    E-mail Reuben Frank at [email protected]. Follow him on Twitter @RoobCSN.

  • #2
    I always appreciated Fryar and am happy he was an Eagle.

    Comment


    • #3
      Screw Fryar. I never forgave him for unretiring to the Redskins after the Eagles did that big ceremony for him and gave him a Harley.


      I don't think I need to add anything regarding Pinkston. I'm pretty sure everyone is well aware of my opinion on him.
      Whatcha Gonna Do Brother, When the Eagles run wild on you?

      Comment


      • #4
        Pinkston. Are you kidding me?

        "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

        Comment


        • #5
          I think I only saw the QOTP (quick out to Pinkston) work once. The defender blew the tackle and Pinkston was gone. Other than that, he was always hit before he could move.

          The game that really changed how we looked at him was the playoff game against the Panthers, when he got the crap beaten out of him and vanished from the game. He played hard but he was just too small.
          E A G L E S

          EAGLES!!!!!!!!!!!!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by sdeaglefan View Post
            I think I only saw the QOTP (quick out to Pinkston) work once. The defender blew the tackle and Pinkston was gone. Other than that, he was always hit before he could move.

            The game that really changed how we looked at him was the playoff game against the Panthers, when he got the crap beaten out of him and vanished from the game. He played hard but he was just too small.
            I don't know why I bother anymore but.....Pinkston was getting double and tripple teamed all game while Thrash was getting bitched by ricky manning jr.
            Whatcha Gonna Do Brother, When the Eagles run wild on you?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Eagle60 View Post
              Pinkston. Are you kidding me?

              Pretty sure, this is the same game...

              Whatcha Gonna Do Brother, When the Eagles run wild on you?

              Comment


              • #8
                Ahhhhh, yes, this is what I was hoping for!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by leifdawg View Post
                  I don't know why I bother anymore but.....Pinkston was getting double and tripple teamed all game while Thrash was getting bitched by ricky manning jr.
                  my bad
                  E A G L E S

                  EAGLES!!!!!!!!!!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    It's really tough to call Pinkston underrated, especially when he was a 2nd round pick, and the Philly media would say "we're hoping for a breakout year from Pinkston" that never came. But of course it's not his fault that the Eagles took him in the 2nd round, with Jerry Porter, Laveraneus Coles and Darrell Jackson still on the board.

                    But he was, what he was, and it's not like he was a total washout......he was even our leading receiver at halftime of XXXIX (I remembered thinking, "Holy jeez, Pinkston's having the game of his life! Today!"), and I did wonder how the SB might have been different if we'd had Pinkston and Chad Lewis for the whole game.
                    Last edited by balto-eaglefan; 06-17-2011, 09:34 AM.
                    "Philly fans are great....It's the only place where you pull up on the bus and you've got the grandfather, the grandmother, the kids and the grandkids - everybody flicking you off. At other stadiums, they give you the thumbs-down. Here, they give you the middle finger.”
                    — Michael Strahan

                    "No one likes us, no one likes us, no one likes us, we don’t care, we’re from Philly, F—-ing Philly, No one likes us, we don’t care!”
                    - Jason Kelce with the best championship speech ever

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by balto-eaglefan View Post
                      It's really tough to call Pinkston underrated, especially when he was a 2nd round pick, and the Philly media would say "we're hoping for a breakout year from Pinkston" that never came. But of course it's not his fault that the Eagles took him in the 2nd round, with Jerry Porter, Laveraneus Coles and Darrell Jackson still on the board.

                      But he was, what he was, and it's not like he was a total washout......he was even our leading receiver at halftime of XXXIX (I remembered thinking, "Holy jeez, Pinkston's having the game of his life! Today!"), and I did wonder how the SB might have been different if we'd had Pinkston and Chad Lewis for the whole game.
                      I kind of thought 2004 was his breakout season. And then he got injured in training camp the next year and never came back.
                      Whatcha Gonna Do Brother, When the Eagles run wild on you?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Cris Carter as a starter with the Eagles: 42 catches for 683 yards and 8 1/2 TDs per season.

                        James Thrash as a starter with the Eagles: 55 catches for 675 yards and five TDs per season.

                        That pretty much says it all.
                        Um, no Frank. I thnk it would say more about the catches and yards if you also added that Carter started 31 games to Thrashes 47.

                        And Carter being overrated? The second most receiving TDs in NFL history when he retired, and he's overrated?? I didn't even bother with the rest of the article.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by eagle eye View Post
                          Um, no Frank. I thnk it would say more about the catches and yards if you also added that Carter started 31 games to Thrashes 47.

                          And Carter being overrated? The second most receiving TDs in NFL history when he retired, and he's overrated?? I didn't even bother with the rest of the article.
                          His contention, is he was over rated as an Eagle, but overall had a good career. Also what do games played matter when the stats he gave were averages.
                          Whatcha Gonna Do Brother, When the Eagles run wild on you?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by leifdawg View Post
                            His contention, is he was over rated as an Eagle, but overall had a good career. Also what do games played matter when the stats he gave were averages.
                            Oh, for some reason I read it as the just the TDs were average per year. So yeah, the catch and yards numbers there are close. Still, 8.5 TDs is pretty good.

                            A big reason why people don't like Pinkston is that he was a wuss. He was obviously afraid of getting hit and he usually went down with the first hint of a guy touching him. I don't know if he ever ran crossing routes over the middle.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by eagle eye View Post
                              Oh, for some reason I read it as the just the TDs were average per year. So yeah, the catch and yards numbers there are close. Still, 8.5 TDs is pretty good.

                              A big reason why people don't like Pinkston is that he was a wuss. He was obviously afraid of getting hit and he usually went down with the first hint of a guy touching him. I don't know if he ever ran crossing routes over the middle.
                              That's the thing though. Other than one or two really bad plays, he had no problems taking hits, sure he was exactly the best YAC guy, but that wasn't his role.
                              Whatcha Gonna Do Brother, When the Eagles run wild on you?

                              Comment

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