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  • Interesting take on the Eagles personnel group

    From profootballweekly. Very tough on Heckert -- though this run of poor-producing d-linemen taken in the 1st round raises questions in my mind. very reminiscent to the OL who were drafted by kotite in the 90s -- antone davis, lester holmes, bernard williams.

    Apologies if this was already posted.




    Donovan McNabb’s season-ending injury has raised some questions about the Eagles — from the front office down.

    It not only puts the Eagles’ season in serious doubt, it also brings up the matter of whether the team needs to be concerned about McNabb’s long-term durability and whether it should have addressed the QB position more thoroughly given that history. This is the third season-ending injury in the past five years for McNabb, and although the ailments — a broken ankle, a sports hernia and now a torn anterior cruciate ligament — can all be put into the fluke category, the track record suggests that the Eagles should have planned for their leader going down.

    As PFW has talked to different people around the league, much of the blame has fallen on Tom Heckert — named general manager in January when it was rumored he might be leaving the organization for another GM job — for not properly maintaining the roster.

    Amid last season’s disaster, when the team lost 5-of-7 games after McNabb’s hernia had forced him to the sideline, the team was left to suffer with the inefficient duo of Mike McMahon and Koy Detmer at quarterback, neither of whom is currently on an NFL roster. McMahon and Detmer combined to complete 45.5 percent of their passes, with 11 interceptions and only five touchdowns.

    The team declared its backup QB problems over when it signed Jeff Garcia in the offseason and was encouraged to pick up A.J. Feeley as an upgrade for the No. 3 option. Garcia was ineffective in relief of McNabb in the 31-13 home loss to the Titans, but he played better (19-of-23, 140 yards, two TDs) in a 45-21 loss to the Colts in Week 12 that dropped the Eagles’ record to 5-6.

    “What I want to know: Is Tom Heckert going to take any blame for having two backup quarterbacks who have proven they cannot play in this league?” asked one personnel director, rhetorically, to PFW. “It is his team and will be his second consecutive year they don’t reach the playoffs.”

    It should be noted that head coach Andy Reid held final say on personnel matters during Heckert’s tenure as director of player personnel and remains heavily involved in the process.

    “Is it Andy or Heckert? The NFC is weak, and the once-dominant Phil­a­delphia Eagles are nowhere to be found,” the personnel director said. “I think Reid has proven he can coach.”

    For the time being, the team trudges forward with Garcia, though sources in Philadelphia say there could be a quick hook if things go sour.

    “We feel like we can run our regular stuff with Jeff,” offensive coordinator Marty Mornhinweg told PFW. “He has had good practices and looks pretty confident back there. And with A.J., we have a big guy who can really throw it. So we’re protected either way.”

    Mornhinweg also dismissed the notion that the team gave up against the Titans after McNabb got hurt.

    “I didn’t feel that way,” he said. “We’re going to be all right here.”

    Still, the personnel makeup of the team will be second-guessed by many, especially with the Heckert-Reid combo having drafted only one quarterback — Andy Hall, who never played in an NFL game, in 2004 — since Feeley joined the team out of Oregon in 2001 as a fifth-round draft choice.

    “He took over a team that was already built,” added another NFL talent evaluator. “He’s living off the past and the work of all those veteran scouts. Open the media guide and look at those scouts. What is it, do you have to be 27 years old to be a scout? I am shocked.

    “They have all these kids scouting for them now. (That’s a) sharp contrast from what they had when Andy started. Is it the culmination of a head coach having too much say and not wanting any competent evaluators around him? Is it a (former Packers head coach) Mike Sherman situation all over again?”
    Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

  • #2
    Re: Interesting take on the Eagles personnel group

    Originally posted by PFW
    From profootballweekly...

    Donovan McNabb’s season-ending injury has raised some questions about the Eagles — from the front office down.

    It not only puts the Eagles’ season in serious doubt, it also brings up the matter of whether the team needs to be concerned about McNabb’s long-term durability and whether it should have addressed the QB position more thoroughly given that history. This is the third season-ending injury in the past five years for McNabb, and although the ailments — a broken ankle, a sports hernia and now a torn anterior cruciate ligament — can all be put into the fluke category, the track record suggests that the Eagles should have planned for their leader going down.
    Uhhh...we did, we signed Jeff Garcia as his backup and got a better #3 QB in Feeley....what, should we have John Elway circa 1997 as our backup?

    Originally posted by PFW
    As PFW has talked to different people around the league, much of the blame has fallen on Tom Heckert — named general manager in January when it was rumored he might be leaving the organization for another GM job — for not properly maintaining the roster.
    So, we get to a SB with a young, talented core in 2004, have an injury and moron-plagued 6-10 season last year in 2005 and have gone through struggles/growing pains this year at 6-6 and he is now a failure?

    How did he not "properly maintain the roster"?

    Originally posted by PFW
    Amid last season’s disaster, when the team lost 5-of-7 games after McNabb’s hernia had forced him to the sideline, the team was left to suffer with the inefficient duo of Mike McMahon and Koy Detmer at quarterback, neither of whom is currently on an NFL roster. McMahon and Detmer combined to complete 45.5 percent of their passes, with 11 interceptions and only five touchdowns.

    The team declared its backup QB problems over when it signed Jeff Garcia in the offseason and was encouraged to pick up A.J. Feeley as an upgrade for the No. 3 option. Garcia was ineffective in relief of McNabb in the 31-13 home loss to the Titans, but he played better (19-of-23, 140 yards, two TDs) in a 45-21 loss to the Colts in Week 12 that dropped the Eagles’ record to 5-6.
    So, because the team lost 2 games after losing McNabb to injury, Garcia is a backup bust?

    Originally posted by PFW
    “What I want to know: Is Tom Heckert going to take any blame for having two backup quarterbacks who have proven they cannot play in this league?” asked one personnel director, rhetorically, to PFW. “It is his team and will be his second consecutive year they don’t reach the playoffs.”
    Somehow this guy got a crystal ball that tells what will happen next year already....

    Originally posted by PFW
    It should be noted that head coach Andy Reid held final say on personnel matters during Heckert’s tenure as director of player personnel and remains heavily involved in the process.

    “Is it Andy or Heckert? The NFC is weak, and the once-dominant Phil­a­delphia Eagles are nowhere to be found,” the personnel director said. “I think Reid has proven he can coach.”

    For the time being, the team trudges forward with Garcia, though sources in Philadelphia say there could be a quick hook if things go sour.
    Uhhh...we are 6-6 and have the final playoff berth in our hands right now...all with the terrible Garcia at QB and the horrible Reid/Heckert as HC and GM...

    Originally posted by PFW
    “We feel like we can run our regular stuff with Jeff,” offensive coordinator Marty Mornhinweg told PFW. “He has had good practices and looks pretty confident back there. And with A.J., we have a big guy who can really throw it. So we’re protected either way.”

    Mornhinweg also dismissed the notion that the team gave up against the Titans after McNabb got hurt.

    “I didn’t feel that way,” he said. “We’re going to be all right here.”

    Still, the personnel makeup of the team will be second-guessed by many, especially with the Heckert-Reid combo having drafted only one quarterback — Andy Hall, who never played in an NFL game, in 2004 — since Feeley joined the team out of Oregon in 2001 as a fifth-round draft choice.
    Why would we use more than 1 draft pick on a QB when we have franchise guy at the helm and can find better backup performance from trades or FA? The guy also has written off Andy Hall already for not playing in an NFL game yet....he was drafted in 2004!!

    Originally posted by PFW
    “He took over a team that was already built,” added another NFL talent evaluator. “He’s living off the past and the work of all those veteran scouts. Open the media guide and look at those scouts. What is it, do you have to be 27 years old to be a scout? I am shocked.

    “They have all these kids scouting for them now. (That’s a) sharp contrast from what they had when Andy started. Is it the culmination of a head coach having too much say and not wanting any competent evaluators around him? Is it a (former Packers head coach) Mike Sherman situation all over again?”
    LOL...wow that is just clueless...not sure even how to respond. Yea, Reid took over a team that was already built and took them to 4 NFCCG and 1 SB...has this guy looked at the rosters on those teams? And I am sure JJ, Childress, Marty, Castillo and the others are not competent...lol...
    Eliminate distractions, create energy, fear nothing, and attack everything.

    -Andy Reid

    Comment


    • #3
      clearly mcmahon was a terrible choice as the backup QB last year. they're in much better shape this year.

      this run of underperforming d-linemen drafted in the first round, though, raises questions about heckert and his group. what i found interesting about that piece was the stuff in the end about the scouts all being very young.
      Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Leonard Tose
        clearly mcmahon was a terrible choice as the backup QB last year. they're in much better shape this year.

        this run of underperforming d-linemen drafted in the first round, though, raises questions about heckert and his group. what i found interesting about that piece was the stuff in the end about the scouts all being very young.
        Actually it was not clear at all...it is only clear after the fact which is why these guys can be so glib and arrogant...

        When we signed McMahon there was almost near total acceptance and positive feelings by the fans and media from what I remember...

        He was a young talented guy who had shown some promise and could be groomed under McNabb and Reid's ample wings...just because he got put into a very difficult situation and struggled mightily did not somehow make Heckert's choice to sign him a bad one IMO....

        What "under-performing" D-linemen drafted in the first round are you talking about?

        J-Mac? Ok, sure I can see a case there even though the guy has had very limited chances...

        Patterson? How so? He led the DL in tackles last year and had 3.5 sacks as a rookie...he is on pace to surpass that amount of tackles this year and would have the same amount of sacks if Delhomme does not intentionally ground the ball twice last night...

        Bunkley? The guy is a rookie, I hardly expect him to be a stud right away...we have not seen the real Bunkley yet IMO, way too early to judge.

        Saying a scout or anyone in any job position is bad just because of their age is moronic IMO....there are thousands of examples of young talented people who have succeeded in every profession....now if they are not GOOD scouts, that is another story.
        Eliminate distractions, create energy, fear nothing, and attack everything.

        -Andy Reid

        Comment


        • #5
          seems fair to question Heckert

          I'd also question, what team is doing it better? who is that team? name the great moves they have made over the last two years

          it's always easy to criticize one team or one GM. It's harder to give examples of those who are doing it better.

          somewhat of a weak article

          Comment


          • #6
            [quote=Vote for Kalas]
            Originally posted by "Leonard Tose":ec944
            clearly mcmahon was a terrible choice as the backup QB last year. they're in much better shape this year.

            this run of underperforming d-linemen drafted in the first round, though, raises questions about heckert and his group. what i found interesting about that piece was the stuff in the end about the scouts all being very young.
            Actually it was not clear at all...it is only clear after the fact which is why these guys can be so glib and arrogant...

            When we signed McMahon there was almost near total acceptance and positive feelings by the fans and media from what I remember...

            He was a young talented guy who had shown some promise and could be groomed under McNabb and Reid's ample wings...just because he got put into a very difficult situation and struggled mightily did not somehow make Heckert's choice to sign him a bad one IMO....

            What "under-performing" D-linemen drafted in the first round are you talking about?

            J-Mac? Ok, sure I can see a case there even though the guy has had very limited chances...

            Patterson? How so? He led the DL in tackles last year and had 3.5 sacks as a rookie...he is on pace to surpass that amount of tackles this year and would have the same amount of sacks if Delhomme does not intentionally ground the ball twice last night...

            Bunkley? The guy is a rookie, I hardly expect him to be a stud right away...we have not seen the real Bunkley yet IMO, way too early to judge.

            Saying a scout or anyone in any job position is bad just because of their age is moronic IMO....there are thousands of examples of young talented people who have succeeded in every profession....now if they are not GOOD scouts, that is another story.[/quote:ec944]


            yep, those three -- mcdougle, patterson, bunkley.

            they're looking more and more like davis, holmes, williams.
            Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

            Comment


            • #7
              VFK is still clinging to hope for Jmac. Cute. LOL!

              Let's count Mamulas as sacks to prop up Pattersons numbers!!

              Bunkley? Umm, nothing GOOD to say about him at this point, thats for sure.

              I think this article is premature. It might be right on the money, but it's too early to tell. But make no mistake, this league is built on "what have you done lately". And 2004 is not "lately". Questions are gonna come more and more frequently if we don't return to form.
              http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by FRESH
                VFK is still clinging to hope for Jmac. Cute. LOL!

                Let's count Mamulas as sacks to prop up Pattersons numbers!!

                Bunkley? Umm, nothing GOOD to say about him at this point, thats for sure.

                I think this article is premature. It might be right on the money, but it's too early to tell. But make no mistake, this league is built on "what have you done lately". And 2004 is not "lately". Questions are gonna come more and more frequently if we don't return to form.

                the cold facts are that if all three guys are mediocre-to-bust performers, heckert deserves to be fired. at this point, patterson's mediocre play is the most we can point to. mcdougle is a confirmed bust. the signs with bunkley are very ominous.

                when you combine that with a history of bad LB picks, you've got a subpar front 7. that's what we've got right now -- a subpar front 7.

                a lot of money (howard, kearse) and high draft picks (mcdougle, bunkley, patterson, mccoy) have been spent on that front 7. we should be seeing better play, even with the kearse injury.
                Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

                Comment


                • #9
                  I don't disagree LT. If you think the front 7, and the Dline in particular, have been a weakness for us the past two season (and I think most people WOULD say that), then there is no where else to look than Reid and Heckert.

                  But I'm not buying into any grand philosophical flaw at this time. I think they've just made some poor choices that they will have to do a better job on in the future. Maybe by having someone else involved in their evaluation of the position.
                  http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by FRESH
                    I don't disagree LT. If you think the front 7, and the Dline in particular, have been a weakness for us the past two season (and I think most people WOULD say that), then there is no where else to look than Reid and Heckert.

                    But I'm not buying into any grand philosophical flaw at this time. I think they've just made some poor choices that they will have to do a better job on in the future. Maybe by having someone else involved in their evaluation of the position.
                    dont know that there are any grand flaws here, FRESH. just think they've poured a lot of resources into the front 7 in the last three years. to be sitting here watching this group struggle to make an impact, even with the loss of kearse, is difficult.

                    if you screw up your allocation of resources, as heckert appears to have done with the drafting of mcdougle, mccoy, patterson and bunkley, combined the the big-money deals for kearse and howard, you ought to pay the price, IMO. it's his job to find players.
                    Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      And the price is what, his job? Andy's job? What are you asking for here?
                      http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by FRESH
                        And the price is what, his job? Andy's job? What are you asking for here?
                        Heckert's job is on the line, IMO. as the profootball weekly story noted, Reid still knows how to coach.
                        Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          You know if the D lineman we took were all reaches (al la Harris 10 years ago) then I could see us ripping Heckert. The fact of the matter is McDougle was taken right were he should have been in the draft. There is no way of predicting injury, whether the guys is going to get shot etc. Patterson was a reach in my opinion I had him no higher than a mid 3rd round pick because small DT wear down quickly and are strictly rotational guys in my opinion but that was my opinion. Most draft guru's had Patterson in the high second round so he was a minor reach and he is the best of the three. Bunkley was not a reach he actually fell some in the draft. Its too early to tell on him.
                          So when a player does not mature and get better who fault is it, the personell guy? The coaches? the Player? I would take the last two.
                          Were from Philly F in Philly no one likes us we DON'T CARE!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by taz
                            You know if the D lineman we took were all reaches (al la Harris 10 years ago) then I could see us ripping Heckert. The fact of the matter is McDougle was taken right were he should have been in the draft. There is no way of predicting injury, whether the guys is going to get shot etc. Patterson was a reach in my opinion I had him no higher than a mid 3rd round pick because small DT wear down quickly and are strictly rotational guys in my opinion but that was my opinion. Most draft guru's had Patterson in the high second round so he was a minor reach and he is the best of the three. Bunkley was not a reach he actually fell some in the draft. Its too early to tell on him.
                            So when a player does not mature and get better who fault is it, the personell guy? The coaches? the Player? I would take the last two.

                            Most draft experts agreed that Bunkley "fell" to the Eagles at 14. The Eagles were thrilled he lasted until he got to 14. so he did drop. how much further would he have dropped if the Eagles hadn't snapped him up? clearly, a number of teams saw something in him they didn't like. kudos to them. no kudos to heckert, whose job is to draft the guys who will help the team and avoid the guys who won't.

                            mcdougle was drafted at about where he should have been picked according to the experts. but the eagles did more than just draft the guy in his spot. they moved up 14 or 15 spots and gave up a first-day pick to take him. Heckert stuck his neck out and the Eagles paid a dear price because Hugh Douglas had just walked out the door to Jacksonville.
                            Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              [quote=Leonard Tose][quote="Vote for Kalas":42ff6]
                              Originally posted by "Leonard Tose":42ff6
                              clearly mcmahon was a terrible choice as the backup QB last year. they're in much better shape this year.

                              this run of underperforming d-linemen drafted in the first round, though, raises questions about heckert and his group. what i found interesting about that piece was the stuff in the end about the scouts all being very young.
                              Actually it was not clear at all...it is only clear after the fact which is why these guys can be so glib and arrogant...

                              When we signed McMahon there was almost near total acceptance and positive feelings by the fans and media from what I remember...

                              He was a young talented guy who had shown some promise and could be groomed under McNabb and Reid's ample wings...just because he got put into a very difficult situation and struggled mightily did not somehow make Heckert's choice to sign him a bad one IMO....

                              What "under-performing" D-linemen drafted in the first round are you talking about?

                              J-Mac? Ok, sure I can see a case there even though the guy has had very limited chances...

                              Patterson? How so? He led the DL in tackles last year and had 3.5 sacks as a rookie...he is on pace to surpass that amount of tackles this year and would have the same amount of sacks if Delhomme does not intentionally ground the ball twice last night...

                              Bunkley? The guy is a rookie, I hardly expect him to be a stud right away...we have not seen the real Bunkley yet IMO, way too early to judge.

                              Saying a scout or anyone in any job position is bad just because of their age is moronic IMO....there are thousands of examples of young talented people who have succeeded in every profession....now if they are not GOOD scouts, that is another story.[/quote:42ff6]


                              yep, those three -- mcdougle, patterson, bunkley.

                              they're looking more and more like davis, holmes, williams.[/quote:42ff6]

                              You must be joking....wow...J-Mac I could see your point since it is somewhat valid, but Patterson has done well and Bunkley is a rook...
                              Eliminate distractions, create energy, fear nothing, and attack everything.

                              -Andy Reid

                              Comment

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