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  • #16
    Originally posted by MDFAN View Post
    "Would you rather have Dawk back there right now or Macho Harris, backed up by Sean Jones and Quinton Demps?"

    Not at what the Broncos paid--- I wanted him back at the price the Eagles offered..... a fair one. Isn't all one side or the other--- people that think it might have been a good move--- don't "HATE" dawk as you suggest!

    The bottom line is that the Eagles would still be 11 and 4 and heading to the playoffs. And after seeing Dawk play and how he played in last years game, I'm not sure that I would have anymore confidence in our 2ndery this year with him or without.

    Again my only problem is this continued, and constant drumbeat throughout the year about Dawkins the god...... he isn't all that anymore!

    MD, i'm not suggesting you hate Dawk, not at all. LD, on the other hand, seems to have it in for the guy.

    And I hope you recognize in my prior post that I'm trying to weigh many different factors in analyzing it.
    Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

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    • #17
      He may or may not be all that....whatever that means. But he is better than what we have.
      http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

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      • #18
        Originally posted by FRESH View Post
        He may or may not be all that....whatever that means. But he is better than what we have.
        Really, is he? I dunno. Would we be 12 and 3? 13 and 2?


        I'm not all that sure any more. But again I'm trying to look at it from a realistic pov, not some emotional string. At least the guys we have are young and fast and can learn to correct their mistakes. They (or someone like them) is the future.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Leonard Tose View Post
          MD, i'm not suggesting you hate Dawk, not at all. LD, on the other hand, seems to have it in for the guy.

          And I hope you recognize in my prior post that I'm trying to weigh many different factors in analyzing it.
          I understand but the bottom line is that he got over paid---- by a lot --- and they pay for future not the past.


          Without him maybe we get to sign a Brent Celek or a Winston Justice long term with the money we would have had to shell out for Dawk,,, oh wait, we did.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by MDFAN View Post
            I understand but the bottom line is that he got over paid---- by a lot ---.
            Funny. I keep hearing you say that, but I sure haven't heard any Broncos fan, or anyone in their organization say that.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Eaglebreath View Post
              Funny. I keep hearing you say that, but I sure haven't heard any Broncos fan, or anyone in their organization say that.
              How many other teams have you heard say something like that though? They don't come right out and admit their mistakes like that. Not saying dawkins was a mistake.

              As far as the fans go they are starting to understand why the Eagles decided to part ways. This past game showed everyone the reason why.

              This part isn't meant for you EB but it makes me laugh when fans say stuff like Dawkins was the better option for this year. Football is a team game and it's impossible to say if one player would have made such a difference. Like MD said how much better would Dawk have made the Iggs this year? What games can you look back on and say with Dawk we win that game? Oakland maybe?

              Well maybe against the Bears he gives up a big play and we lose. Ditto the second Redskins game. Maybe without Dawk the Broncos don't give up the 14 points he was responsible and the Eagles lose that game. You can play what ifs all night but it means nothing because we have no clue how any of the games would have turned out. All I do know is that this team this year is playing better than last years team. Plus the NFC this year is heads and shoulders above what the NFC was last season.

              I LOVE Dawk and he will always be one of my all time favorite Eagles but it's time to move on. Watching Denver this year I don't think Dawk is worth $9 million. People talk like Dawk is the main reason for the resurgence of Denver's D and he's not. It starts up front. But I guess if people are going to give him the credit you better give him some of the blame as they take this slide.
              FRESH > cancer

              I hate everything the Cowboys stand for. If you think they are America's team, then you support everything that is wrong with America. The excess, the greed, the lack of maturity, the lack of responsibility, the lack of control. - Luzinski's Gut

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              • #22
                Originally posted by MDFAN View Post
                Really, is he? I dunno. Would we be 12 and 3? 13 and 2?


                I'm not all that sure any more. But again I'm trying to look at it from a realistic pov, not some emotional string. At least the guys we have are young and fast and can learn to correct their mistakes. They (or someone like them) is the future.
                This is hardly a realistic point of view. The young and fast guys they have in there this year have STUNK UP THE JOINT. It's so bad that McDermott is rotating them in on a weekly basis, hoping not to get punished. If these guys are the future, it's a bleak one at the free safety position.

                And this thing with the record is nothing but a straw man argument and you know it. Football is a team game.


                Originally posted by MDFAN View Post
                I understand but the bottom line is that he got over paid---- by a lot --- and they pay for future not the past.
                He didn't get overpaid by a lot. He got 2 years and $9 million. He certainly has earned it this year.

                Originally posted by Blitz View Post
                As far as the fans go they are starting to understand why the Eagles decided to part ways. This past game showed everyone the reason why.

                This part isn't meant for you EB but it makes me laugh when fans say stuff like Dawkins was the better option for this year. Football is a team game and it's impossible to say if one player would have made such a difference.
                You are seriously suggesting that Macho-Demps-Jones is a better option for the Eagles RIGHT NOW? You'd rather go into the Cowboy game this week with one of those guys? These guys have been terrible.

                McDermott keeps benching them and hoping someone else might step up. No one has.

                Originally posted by Blitz View Post
                Watching Denver this year I don't think Dawk is worth $9 million. People talk like Dawk is the main reason for the resurgence of Denver's D and he's not. It starts up front. But I guess if people are going to give him the credit you better give him some of the blame as they take this slide.
                It's $9 million for two years. He's not getting paid $9 million for just this year's play.

                Who are you to say that Dawk is not playing a key role in the resurgence of the Denver defense? Denver players and coaches appear to disagree and have publicly lauded Dawk's contributions all year. He's been voted back to the Pro Bowl, in a new conference.

                While Denver's season has not ended well, their defense remains formidable and has played well. After a spotty first half last week, they dominated the Eagles in the second half. Were you watching that?
                Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

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                • #23
                  I think Dawk helped the run defense,but he was toasted at least twice and doesn't have any make up speed when fooled. Does Dawk have the heart of a lion ?No fucking doubt. Did Dawk start the season on fire ? IMO without a doubt,but also IMO Dawks candle burned down from midseason on and coincidently the Broncos faded as well. I would loved to have seen Dawk play out a fantastic career here in Philly ,but doubt he would have wanted to be a role player like the other 3 have this season. IMO he would have been in a rotation here with the others.Would we be better with him ? I doubt it,we've been trying to fight through LB issues with TEs kicking our butts. I doubt McDermott could have covered for a slow S and been able to play with the LB rotation as well.You have a rook in his first year as a S and a second year player and a vet in his first season in the system,I feel we have something positive in the future. We are a playofff team with the chance to win 12 regular season games while missing our nickel CB for 4 games,Hobbs for 6(?), and our MLB for the season,while we've seen Witherspoon come in at mid season and Jordan and Gocong fight to stay in the lineup.Dawk being here (IMO) doesn't change anything for the positive.
                  We're looking for people that are fundamentally different,” vice president of player personnel Andy Weidl said Saturday night. “The love and passion for football, it's non-negotiable. They're caring, their character, they do the right thing persistently, and they have a relentless playing style that you can see on tape. The motor, it burns hot. You see them finishing plays. They have a team-first mentality. They're selfless individuals.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Eaglebreath View Post
                    Funny. I keep hearing you say that, but I sure haven't heard any Broncos fan, or anyone in their organization say that.
                    By all common standards-- yes -- he got over paid, even the staunchest "keep Dawk" supporters acknowledge that. Please.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Leonard Tose View Post
                      This is hardly a realistic point of view. The young and fast guys they have in there this year have STUNK UP THE JOINT. It's so bad that McDermott is rotating them in on a weekly basis, hoping not to get punished. If these guys are the future, it's a bleak one at the free safety position.
                      Maybe so but the reality is that maybe none of these guys are the super star that Dawk once was, but #1, he isn't either anymore and #2, they didn't know this until they tried it, and they thought they had it covered with Demps till he showed not as good as they/we all thought he was and #3 I don't recall other than the maybe NO game where this 2ndery has been torched and they are SOOOOOOOOO bad that they cost us a game. and as far as the playoffs go, IMO, the D and the 2ndery has been a big part in the play off losses that we had---- with Dawk.

                      Originally posted by LT
                      And this thing with the record is nothing but a straw man argument and you know it. Football is a team game.
                      Maybe to you but the bottom line is that not only wouldn't he have changed the outcome of any game, we also could afford to sign Celek and Justice--- that;s fact not straw anything.




                      Originally posted by LT
                      He didn't get overpaid by a lot. He got 2 years and $9 million. He certainly has earned it this year.
                      Please stop. Talk about strawmen..... you and I and everyone else knows he got over paid. Not even worth trying to discuss.



                      The bottom line is that I loved Dawk, thought he was a great player... but he isn't a "great" player anymore.... and at some point you have to move on--- due to contracts this was the year for Dawk. I would have loved to see Dawk here in a sharing role. But at some point you move on.... and I'm glad we now have Celek and Justice in house. And we are working on the DB's of the future, maybe these guys are or aren't but nobody has a crystal ball........... cept for the some people (in general not you LT) who swear they KNOW.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by musicman View Post
                        I think Dawk helped the run defense,but he was toasted at least twice and doesn't have any make up speed when fooled. Does Dawk have the heart of a lion ?No fucking doubt. Did Dawk start the season on fire ? IMO without a doubt,but also IMO Dawks candle burned down from midseason on and coincidently the Broncos faded as well. I would loved to have seen Dawk play out a fantastic career here in Philly ,but doubt he would have wanted to be a role player like the other 3 have this season. IMO he would have been in a rotation here with the others.Would we be better with him ? I doubt it,we've been trying to fight through LB issues with TEs kicking our butts. I doubt McDermott could have covered for a slow S and been able to play with the LB rotation as well.You have a rook in his first year as a S and a second year player and a vet in his first season in the system,I feel we have something positive in the future. We are a playofff team with the chance to win 12 regular season games while missing our nickel CB for 4 games,Hobbs for 6(?), and our MLB for the season,while we've seen Witherspoon come in at mid season and Jordan and Gocong fight to stay in the lineup.Dawk being here (IMO) doesn't change anything for the positive.
                        Good Post!

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                        • #27
                          And BTW Dawk earned in 2009----- $7,180,000.00 ------ yes that is over paid!
                          (per USA Today salary)

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                          • #28
                            First, I have to say, I'm very disappointed in how I missed the Dawkins introduction. I was stuck outside trying to figure out how I lost my ticket that was in a placard around my neck. After watching scalpers ask for full price for tickets after the game was ten minutes into play, I walked back to our RV pretty bummed. I then was given a free standing room only ticket by our parking security. I got in and back to my seat with the score 7-0. I was proud to be wearing my Dawkins Superbowl jersey.

                            I laughed at some in early season threads that suggested Denver was a stud team all because of Dawkins. I said then, and I still believe that what Dawk brought to Denver (enthusiasm and great hits) were and still are helpful to a team that has a stud pass rusher and a shut down corner, but that DOES NOT equate to the same results for us...if he was here.

                            Dawk was burned twice in this game. How many times was our tandem burned in the same game? I dont recall ANY time. All Macho did was knock the bejesus out of a TE the SAME WAY DAWKINS WOULD HAVE. I recall Dawk getting away with a few hits like that in his time....so a bad call by the ref does not make Dawk a better fit than Macho in this game.

                            Personally I feel that Dawkins would have been better early in the year than the two NEW guys, but I know as much as everyone else that you have to give a rookie and a new FA time to learn the defense. I really dont know if they will be where we need them in two or three weeks, but I do know that the speed that Macho brings will certainly be better than the speed Dawk lacked last year during his final game in green.

                            I'm hopeful that Macho will meet that "don't get burned deep" role that he is filling right now. Jones is certainly a step down to Dawks' run stopping and hitting ability, so you have to ask yourself, are Dawk's cover skills worth the risk in another playoff game just to have a better run stuopper? After watching Gruden, Dungie, Billichek and Ariz's coordinators kill our slow LBers and DB's in the playoffs past, I REALLY don't want to take that risk again.

                            But it sucked watching Dawkins play for anyone else.....which reminds me of just how much I hate the business side of sports.
                            Pedro

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