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  • Les Bowen has been reading my chit!

    he basically regurgitated everything I have been saying

    http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports ... 609559.htm

    Les Bowen | Eagles running away from run againby Les Bowen
    THE EAGLES' defense is all over the place right now, capable of generating great pass-rush pressure, just as capable of giving up yards and points in big, messy, hard-to-digest chunks.

    Injuries, obviously, are a big factor in this inconsistency. But so are some of the offensive decisions.

    You might have heard somewhere, just a time or two, that if the Eagles' offense had been able to manage one more crucial first down in the late going of that horrific meltdown loss to the Giants a little more than a week ago, it could have kept a patched-together defensive backfield on the sideline and won the game.

    Jim Johnson's defense ran into the same troubles Sunday in San Francisco. This time, on top of a cornerback injury - Rod Hood had to leave the game again with that heel problem that first cropped up against the Giants - Johnson's safeties started going down; first Sean Considine to a hip flexor, then Brian Dawkins to a concussion. That one-linebacker dime package Johnson has come to like so much had to be totally abandoned.

    To avoid disaster, the defense again needed a little help from the offense. And that was exactly what it got, a little help. One second-half scoring drive, five plays, 80 yards, lasting all of 2 minutes, 25 seconds. A clock-eating, grind-it-out sequence with a big lead in the second half? Fans haven't seen one of those since the opener.

    The Eagles are back to throwing the ball twice as much as they run it, very much like last season. In addition to not helping the defense, this situation isn't going to help Donovan McNabb stay healthy. McNabb took some hits in San Francisco, really for the first time this season. He was sacked three times.

    There was one third-quarter sack that was especially notable, in that it helped fuel the 49ers' comeback attempt. San Francisco had just scored its first touchdown of the game, making it 31-10. Dawkins suffered his concussion on the scoring play.

    The Eagles got the ball on their 17. A dump pass to Correll Buckhalter lost a yard. A Matt Schobel false start made it second-and-16 from the 11. Buckhalter ran for 2 yards. It was third-and-14, from the 13. Maybe a run into the line would gain a few yards and allow Dirk Johnson to punt the ball into 49ers territory. But of course, the Eagles did not run. McNabb took a full drop, was hit at the 2, and was dragged into the end zone. The Birds were fortunate to avoid a safety. Johnson punted from the back of the end zone, San Francisco took over at the Eagles' 43, and five plays later it was 31-17.

    The Eagles ran for 150 yards Sunday, a misleading stat in that 71 of those yards came on one play, the Brian Westbrook touchdown gallop. Subtract two kneel-downs and they managed just 16 called running plays, to 33 passes attempted. Yes, they probably want to take it easy with Westbrook's knee, but Buckhalter seems stuck in Sunday's five-carry range. Ryan Moats actually got the ball Sunday, for the first time this season, running all of twice, for 16 yards.

    Good teams run effectively with the lead, which gives the defense a break and makes a comeback impossible. The Eagles haven't shown that they know how to do that, or that Reid understands the importance of doing that.

  • #2
    "Good teams run effectively with the lead, which gives the defense a break and makes a comeback impossible. The Eagles haven't shown that they know how to do that, or that Reid understands the importance of doing that."

    I generally like Bowen, but this is so typical of unbridled idiocy IMO...no creativity, no analysis; just repeating mantras that do not apply...

    1. Are the Eagles a good team? Apparently not according to Les since they do not run effectively with the lead...unless I am mistaken, we are 2-1 and have pummelled our opponents into the ground outscoring them 76-58. Unless he thinks somehow style criteria are more important than wins or points...I could care less if they run the single wing...

    2. Is the defense not responsible for its play? Since when is it the offense's sole job to save the defense? And how is scoring 76 points in 3 games not doing just that? The offense could execute better for sure in both their running & passing attempts, but the defense needs to execute better too and can get themselves off the field fine. How about getting some more turnovers which could help the offense?

    3. How does running make a comeback impossible? We did that and Westy fumbled which led to our opponent's TD...how did that happen?? We ran the ball, right? lol...comebacks are ALWAYS possible and the best way IMO to avoid comebacks is to keep SCORING...that is what Reid has focused on and what he did well vs. the 49ers...the defense helped too with their TD runback which was a great play. Just running the ball regardless of how effective one is or what the defense's weaknesses are is stupid IMO.

    4. Why can't Bowen understand and accept Reid disagrees with this mantra and has shown he can win consistently without following it?? Reid understands the importance of running obviously since he improved his OL, upgraded the FB position with Tapeh, invested in Westy, stuck by Bucky and drafted Moats...he just uses it in HIS way and Bowen does not seem able to admit he might be wrong, that the golden mantra may be hollow and that the Eagles are playing well. Again.
    Eliminate distractions, create energy, fear nothing, and attack everything.

    -Andy Reid

    Comment


    • #3
      Classic case of many assumptions leading to conclusions and then using them as facts.

      "Jim Johnson's defense ran into the same troubles Sunday in San Francisco."

      Bullshit-- JJ's defense ran into a problem alright, it was that they couldn't get themselves off the field.

      Maybe if that unit stopped some of the stupid penalties they would have been off the field more. Or stopping teams on 3rd and long. But blaming the O is wrong, IMO.

      Frankly I find almost that whole article useless, JIMO.

      "Good teams run effectively with the lead, which gives the defense a break and makes a comeback impossible. The Eagles haven't shown that they know how to do that, or that Reid understands the importance of doing that."

      No, good teams do what they do best in order to try and either score or move the chains!!

      Doesn't make a damn bit of difference if the O moves the chains via the pass or the rush (the D is on the sidelines the same amount of real rest time) -- the problem comes in when either isn't executed well enough and they fail.

      This O is a pass first O, always has been and always will be-- so why gnash your teeth that we don't have Jim Brown as our RB.

      This is nothing more than the same argument that the media tries to make every year--- and has since AR told everyone what kind of play caller he was going to be.

      It doesn't make a damn bit of difference how you move the chains and eat the clock--- it's the execution/success and the actual moving of the chains that counts.



      Ducks head and walks away............

      Comment


      • #4
        who said it was the offenses sole job to save the defense? I think what he is saying is that running so few times is keeping an already thin defense on the field too much.

        I dunno. I'm surprised any Eagle fan is OK with the lack of dedication to the run.

        Heck, all off-season we talked about Jackson being more of a mauler...about Herremans adding a nasty streak.

        I'm as happy as anyone with our O moving the ball and scoring points. I'm just mad as hell that we get up 2 or more TD's that we still empty that backfield and pass. Especially with the D shorthanded.

        and how can you blame the Westbrook fumble? Didn't you just say it was the defenses job to make stops?

        IMHO it's an issue right now and one that most certainly cost us one game and could have cost us another if we played a better team.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Vote for Kalas
          "Good teams run effectively with the lead, which gives the defense a break and makes a comeback impossible. The Eagles haven't shown that they know how to do that, or that Reid understands the importance of doing that."

          I generally like Bowen, but this is so typical of unbridled idiocy IMO...no creativity, no analysis; just repeating mantras that do not apply...

          1. Are the Eagles a good team? Apparently not according to Les since they do not run effectively with the lead...unless I am mistaken, we are 2-1 and have pummelled our opponents into the ground outscoring them 76-58. Unless he thinks somehow style criteria are more important than wins or points...I could care less if they run the single wing...

          2. Is the defense not responsible for its play? Since when is it the offense's sole job to save the defense? And how is scoring 76 points in 3 games not doing just that? The offense could execute better for sure in both their running & passing attempts, but the defense needs to execute better too and can get themselves off the field fine. How about getting some more turnovers which could help the offense?

          3. How does running make a comeback impossible? We did that and Westy fumbled which led to our opponent's TD...how did that happen?? We ran the ball, right? lol...comebacks are ALWAYS possible and the best way IMO to avoid comebacks is to keep SCORING...that is what Reid has focused on and what he did well vs. the 49ers...the defense helped too with their TD runback which was a great play. Just running the ball regardless of how effective one is or what the defense's weaknesses are is stupid IMO.

          4. Why can't Bowen understand and accept Reid disagrees with this mantra and has shown he can win consistently without following it?? Reid understands the importance of running obviously since he improved his OL, upgraded the FB position with Tapeh, invested in Westy, stuck by Bucky and drafted Moats...he just uses it in HIS way and Bowen does not seem able to admit he might be wrong, that the golden mantra may be hollow and that the Eagles are playing well. Again.

          This sounds like Belmont last year before the meltdown arguing that the Eagles were chucking it 70 percent of the time because they had invented some new paradigm for success.

          Had the Eagles been able to run the ball with the lead, they'd be 3-0 right now. Period. Not 2-1. With a healthy Jevon Kearse, most likely.

          Last week, they had the same problems. In week 1, they were terrific running the clock out. You ought to go back to Spadaro's column after that game where he gushed about the importance of being able to do that.

          It's not that Reid has invented some different way to win. If he had some damn patience and the willingness to stick with the run even when it's not working, he'd be running the clock out just like every other NFL coach. But he doesn't.

          Reid ought to take some cues from his mentor, Holmgren, who wants to throw as badly as Reid. For most games, Holmgren write the words "RUN THE BALL" in big black letters on his clipboard, because he knows his tendency -- that he loses all sense during the heat of the game and always wants to chuck it.
          Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by dawkins20
            who said it was the offenses sole job to save the defense? I think what he is saying is that running so few times is keeping an already thin defense on the field too much.

            I dunno. I'm surprised any Eagle fan is OK with the lack of dedication to the run.

            Heck, all off-season we talked about Jackson being more of a mauler...about Herremans adding a nasty streak.

            I'm as happy as anyone with our O moving the ball and scoring points. I'm just mad as hell that we get up 2 or more TD's that we still empty that backfield and pass. Especially with the D shorthanded.

            and how can you blame the Westbrook fumble? Didn't you just say it was the defenses job to make stops?

            IMHO it's an issue right now and one that most certainly cost us one game and could have cost us another if we played a better team.

            of course it's an issue right now. With all due respect, I urge you to pay no attention to MD and VFK on this one! Arguing against the importance of being able to run the ball out is crazy talk.
            Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

            Comment


            • #7
              There are several things that make running the football possible. When a team gets up big on another team, its a good bet that the team that is ahead is going to try and run the football. So the defense in order to stop this will play eight men in the box. Its tough to run against that, no matter how good a team is. Can it be done YES it can but I have no problem with the way Andy called the 2nd half of the 49ers game, he did what he didn't do against the Giants and that was take what the defense gave him. Just review the game real quick.

              1. You have to understand that the Eagles had the ball one time in the 3 quarter it was a 3 an out after a big mistake by Ramsey a penalty and a sack (on a long down and distance).

              They only had it once because the 49ers took the opening kickoff of the 3rd quarter and had a long drive that culminated in several tries at running to ball at the goal line. Eventually Patterson picks up the ball and runs it in for a TD. So it ends up with one less possession that way. So if you strickly look at the offensive stats you can say we didn't try to run the ball in the 2nd half but its hard to look at that when you have a defensive touchdown scored after a long drive and turnover by the opposing offense

              2. When the Eagles got the ball in the 4th quarter they took what the Defense gave them which was a long 60 yard pass to a wide open Schobel because the 49ers where in a run stop defense. BTW on that drive they threw the ball 3 times and ran it two including a 8 yard TD run. The biggest thing is this, they answered each score (except for the inconsiquential last score) with a score of their own either via the defense or the offense. That is what mattered.
              Were from Philly F in Philly no one likes us we DON'T CARE!

              Comment


              • #8
                RUN ANDY RUN - I mean, didn't we learn anything from 2005?

                And give C-buck more than 5 carries a game!
                "Philly fans are great....It's the only place where you pull up on the bus and you've got the grandfather, the grandmother, the kids and the grandkids - everybody flicking you off. At other stadiums, they give you the thumbs-down. Here, they give you the middle finger.”
                — Michael Strahan

                "No one likes us, no one likes us, no one likes us, we don’t care, we’re from Philly, F—-ing Philly, No one likes us, we don’t care!”
                - Jason Kelce with the best championship speech ever

                Comment


                • #9
                  You guys are simplifing the run game thing too much. Andy did exactly what he needed to do to win against the 49ers. His problem against the Giants is he stopped passing and moving the chains by doing that. The Giants have one of the best run defenses in football without knowing what is coming at them, witness their 2.85 ypc against 94/286 and that is against two teams in Seatle and Indy that have good running games. Seatle went 41 for 106 against them. We went 30-107. On the other hand their pass defense couldn't stop my grandmother
                  Were from Philly F in Philly no one likes us we DON'T CARE!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by taz
                    You guys are simplifing the run game thing too much. Andy did exactly what he needed to do to win against the 49ers. His problem against the Giants is he stopped passing and moving the chains by doing that. The Giants have one of the best run defenses in football without knowing what is coming at them, witness their 2.85 ypc against 94/286 and that is against two teams in Seatle and Indy that have good running games. Seatle went 41 for 106 against them. We went 30-107. On the other hand their pass defense couldn't stop my grandmother

                    i agree with this to an extent. Reid clearly wanted to run the clock out against the Giants, as he had the week before against Houston. But he has little feel for the timing of when to begin this task. He started about midway through the 3rd quarter, when it was still a three-score game.

                    when the giants packed the box with 8, the situation called for some passing as the game was still too long from ending.

                    ideally, you start running the clock out with about 10 minutes to go in the 4th quarter, with a lead of two or three scores. you want that killer six- or eight-minute drive where you get three or four first downs.
                    Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      San Fran had five 4 and outs

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Leonard Tose
                        Originally posted by dawkins20
                        who said it was the offenses sole job to save the defense? I think what he is saying is that running so few times is keeping an already thin defense on the field too much.

                        I dunno. I'm surprised any Eagle fan is OK with the lack of dedication to the run.

                        Heck, all off-season we talked about Jackson being more of a mauler...about Herremans adding a nasty streak.

                        I'm as happy as anyone with our O moving the ball and scoring points. I'm just mad as hell that we get up 2 or more TD's that we still empty that backfield and pass. Especially with the D shorthanded.

                        and how can you blame the Westbrook fumble? Didn't you just say it was the defenses job to make stops?

                        IMHO it's an issue right now and one that most certainly cost us one game and could have cost us another if we played a better team.

                        of course it's an issue right now. With all due respect, I urge you to pay no attention to MD and VFK on this one! Arguing against the importance of being able to run the ball out is crazy talk.
                        Stop twisting, I never said that running out the clock wasn't important -- I said it doesn't make a difference on how you do it-- just do it successfully! Big difference.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by MDFAN
                          It doesn't make a damn bit of difference how you move the chains and eat the clock--- it's the execution/success and the actual moving of the chains that counts.

                          Not sure what I'm twisting here, MD. this sentence tells me you don't think it's necessarily important to be able to run out the clock. you think it's fine to pass out the clock if that's what the Eagles do best.

                          fair enough. i agree that the Eagles should mix in some passing late in the game with the lead because that is what they do best. but let's remember that the clock stops on an incomplete pass. a run for no gain, the clock keeps moving. which no-gainer is more productive at the end of a game with a lead?
                          Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            "fair enough. but let's remember that the clock stops on an incomplete pass. a run for no gain, the clock keeps moving. which no-gainer is more productive at the end of a game with a lead? "

                            Only the game clock stops, the play clock is the same, so the real rest time for a D is real time not game time. They rest based on real time, not game clock time. So the D can't rely on the "well the O didn't get us enough rest" mantra. WHICH is what Bowen was/is trying to sell. The bottom line is it isn't about running VS passing -- it's about succeeding at eating up the clock or not, doesn't matter how you do it.

                            A 12 play 80 yard drive, whether by air or land, gives a D the same (appx) rest time.

                            Now granted the game clock will have some variance, but the basic premise that a passing 12 play 80 yard drive drive doesn't give it's D a good enough chance to rest is bull-- what counts is the successfulness of the drive.

                            Disclaimer #67890--- My only argument here is with Bowen and this tired old crap I hear about "HAVING" to run the ball to to be a good team. And this nonsense that the O needs to help the D, no, the D needs to help the D.

                            Personally, I would love to see them run the ball a lot more with big leads, (Hell, anytime, I've said it all winter that he needs to get back to a closer balance) BUT first and foremost I want them to do whatever they need to do to accomplish the goal of moving the chains or continuing to score points -- and I really don't give a crap if it's passing or running--- as long as it works!

                            And I put a lot of this right back on the D's shoulders-- you want rest??? get the fuck off the field and stop giving the other guys 80 yard drives, or 42 yard pass plays, or kicking guys in the nuts or roughing the passer and stopping teams on 3rd and 8's--- or recovering a fumble or 2 or picking off a pass or 2--- that will go a long way toward getting you that rest Mr. Bowen thinks you need.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              the funny thing is the Giants are having the opposite problem. They fall behind so quick that their TOP is just as bad as ours.

                              Right now the Colts and us are winning with low TOP and have issues that could come to the surface as the years goes on IMHO. Unless gameplans and execution change.


                              TOP Leaders:

                              http://www.nfl.com/stats/teamsort/NFL/O ... 1:col_1=15

                              we are 25th...look at the teams behind us. It's the whos who of 1-2 and 0-3's

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