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(OT) I'm going to risk it here...and if this gets nixed it is OK.

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  • (OT) I'm going to risk it here...and if this gets nixed it is OK.

    You guys are all bright here and I think some of you are even business owners.

    Where do you all come down on this debt ceiling thing?

    I consider myself a civil libertarian, socially liberal and fiscally conservative.

    I have no problem with raising my taxes slightly, or removing the mortgage deduction, closing loopholes, etc. I do think we have to reign in Medicare and Social Security somewhat because as a 40 year old it isn't going to be there for me unless they make some changes to it and that is frustrating to pay in on something that I'm not going to get to use.

    It has just been interesting to see a bunch of Ivy league hacks in Washington debate something like this so poorly. Meanwhile a bunch of jocks and ex-jocks got in a room and came to a 10-year agreement using what I think was some common sense and real compromise.

    Again, don't want to start a political discussion but I'd be interested to hear what some of you think about this debt ceiling thing. Obviously it had to be raised - although I think we are still very close to a credit downgrade - but I'm not sure the special interests in D.C. will ever make the required spending cuts and create the necessary revenue stream to keep this huge government functioning.
    You know Darren if you'd have told me 10 years ago that someday I was going to solve the world's energy problems I'd have said your crazy.... now lets drop this big ball of oil out the window.

  • #2
    Short answer:

    We're f'cked.

    Comment


    • #3
      never a good idea to answer things like this, but.....

      I side with Obama completely. Tax the wealthy and stop the business loopholes
      It's not as if any business owners aren't outsourcing jobs outside of the US anyway. Raise their taxes and give them breaks if they create more jobs in this country

      I'm open ticket, but I am tired of the Republicans constantly making sure they got the backs of their rich contributors. Also sick and tired of them attempting to blame the Democrats and Obama's stimulus plan. They conveniently forget the Bush administration?

      this country is a mess and the reality is that it is all because of the 2 party system and so many interests well outside of the citizens. Money talks with all politicians

      what they are about to vote in is just a bandaid on a huge open sore. But I guess it is better than getting nothing done.
      Last edited by dawkins20; 08-02-2011, 11:31 AM.

      Comment


      • #4
        If you want a serious answer - I'll try to keep this apolitical.

        Basically - I would do my civic duty and pay more taxes and contribute as needed. I fall in the top 5% of wage earners in the U.S. at age 35 based on IRS tables and candidly - I go home every night to food on the table, hot shower and wife/kid(s) who love me.

        Here's the problem. Free markets and capitalism work better than any other model ever introduced to society. What has occurred is the same thing that brought other major world powers in history (See Rome) to their knees. Our government has gotten out of control and has been enabled by society being placated through wealth and excess. The tipping point has come and the only way to fix a major league disaster like we face right now is to go through very hard times.

        We can do it - but back to my original thought - while I don't mind paying my fair share and price - I have zero confidence that the individuals who will be receiving my fair share of taxes and/or wealth redistribution over the short term (I don't support that long term) will stop spending, stop chasing social agendas that have no sense to them and will ever step backward and end the short term assistance from citizens over the long haul.

        So that is why I support massive cuts in spending throughout the government. I support massive reductions in the government workforce (I know that's harsh but if you ever worked in a government environment you would 50% of it is just welfare jobs) - and complete overhaul to how the government spends.

        While I am generally conservative - I also support evaluating our military spending in great detail. We have become the police force for the world and yes - freedom is beautiful and protecting those who cannot protect themselves is beautiful - but at some point it's impossible and fiscally crippling.

        The system needs an overhaul and the first step is destroying the government machine that has no accountability.
        Carson Wentz ERA


        NFC East Titles:
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        • #5
          if the line is set at 250K combined income, I can't see why the rates can't just just a bit for anyone in that area. That would help so much more than raising the ceiling IMHO

          I do agree with you BP....the concern is what the crooks in DC would do with that money and would they control spending or no

          the funny thing is the Republicans dont make that argument

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by dawkins20 View Post
            never a good idea to answer things like this, but.....

            I side with Obama completely. Tax the wealthy and stop the business loopholes
            It's not as if any business owners aren't outsourcing jobs outside of the US anyway. Raise their taxes and give them breaks if they create more jobs in this country

            I'm open ticket, but I am tired of the Republicans constantly making sure they got the backs of their rich contributors. Also sick and tired of them attempting to blame the Democrats and Obama's stimulus plan. They conveniently forget the Bush administration?

            this country is a mess and the reality is that it is all because of the 2 party system and so many interests well outside of the citizens. Money talks with all politicians

            what they are about to vote in is just a bandaid on a huge open sore. But I guess it is better than getting nothing done.
            Word for word I agree. Neither party has a fucking clue.

            The country is/was in trouble but at least we can write off our race horses.
            FRESH > cancer

            I hate everything the Cowboys stand for. If you think they are America's team, then you support everything that is wrong with America. The excess, the greed, the lack of maturity, the lack of responsibility, the lack of control. - Luzinski's Gut

            Comment


            • #7
              All I can say is, the NY Times had a website link called "solve the deficit" where you could add or remove taxes, and cut (or leave alone) programs related to health care, medicare, social security, and the DoD. It showed short-term effects, and long-term effects.

              The point was easy: you could make your own honest choices and solve the problem in less than an hour. And our government, well..........
              "Philly fans are great....It's the only place where you pull up on the bus and you've got the grandfather, the grandmother, the kids and the grandkids - everybody flicking you off. At other stadiums, they give you the thumbs-down. Here, they give you the middle finger.”
              — Michael Strahan

              "No one likes us, no one likes us, no one likes us, we don’t care, we’re from Philly, F—-ing Philly, No one likes us, we don’t care!”
              - Jason Kelce with the best championship speech ever

              Comment


              • #8
                I preface my comments with the admission that I am generally liberal and therefore I am biased towards the policies of the Democratic party. I do agree that some of our government policies have gotten out of whack and need to be streamlined. However, I blame most of the faults of our government on the failed policies of the Bush administration. During the last years of the Clinton administration, the government was taking in more money than it was expending - in other words, there was a surplus.
                In a series of misguided moves, Bush ran the government into the ground through tax cuts (mostly for the wealthy) and foolishly getting us involved in Iraq and Afghanistan. Granted, the nation needed to make some sort of statement after 9/11. However, going after Hussein was really a non sequitur. We were bamboozled. In my mind, we are still being bamboozled into thinking the problems are with Medicare and Social Security.

                Basically, you can't cut taxes and go trying to fight two wars far overseas. To get the ship of government upright, we need to trim some government programs, raise taxes on those who can afford to pay them, and bring the troops home. That is my opinion.

                I must add that I am sick of the Republican propaganda machine trying to blame everything on Obama. He wasn't the cause of our problems, he has just been unable to fix the problems - largely because the Republicans have been intransigent in hopes of making it so hard for him to solve the problems that they can then retake the White House in 2012. Sad.
                Last edited by stocknowledge; 08-02-2011, 01:09 PM.
                "Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann



                Comment


                • #9
                  Clinton benefited heavily from the internet boom, and it likewise Bush was crippled by the bubble bursting.

                  Also my political science professor in college always told me that financial policy usually takes about 10 years to show their effects.
                  Whatcha Gonna Do Brother, When the Eagles run wild on you?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I agree it is risky answering but the thread seems level headed enough. Spending is out of control. I spent 26 yrs in the military and had a 700 man unit that I was able to spend on pretty freely. There was plenty that I dind't have to spend. So I agree you can cut almost everywhere in the fed not just the military; unfortunately the places they cut will be dumb ass places and not the places that should be cut.
                    Social security was designed as an insurance program and thus should be run like one. It is there to ensure eldery don't live in poverty not that everyone gets their money back. My father in law recently passed at age 92. He collected for thirty years while having two retirements and his own investment incomes. He didn't need to receive all his SS deposits but he did (and more so). There should be some guidelines in entitlement programs.
                    I am at the low end of a higher tax bracket but I basically take my bath because I don't have many things to change my tax filings. My son is an opera singer in NY; you would not believe the returns he can submit. He pays damn near nothing. Tax overhaul has to happen.
                    Unfortunately, those elected get to stay elected by what they bring back to their voters and donors. IF you can get the rat bastards to vote based on what is best for America life would be just fine in this country.
                    The debt ceiling had to be lifted; I canbuy that. What I don't buy is that another committee or commision will have any better luck than any previous commision in cutting spending/hiking taxes. A number of years ago we had base closing commisions in this country in order to close unneccesary miltary bases. Congress could only vote yes or no; they couldn't change the recommended bases to be closed. Even that was tainted but it worked better than anything previous. I would like to see the Simpson commision restarted using their findings and tweek it to current situation and then the results given to congress with an up or down vote.
                    Sorry for the long rant
                    Wait until next year is a terrible philosophy
                    Hope is not a strategy
                    RIP

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      NoDak is right. We all have different political leanings but we discussed this like adults. I knew that would be the case. Reading through all of your posts, I agree with most of what you are saying.

                      1. I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes if I thought the money would be utilized correctly but there are a lot of "free loaders" out there. I have a 22 year old cousin that lives with my aunt, has a kid, one on the way, and he and his wife collect welfare. He lives in a farm community and absolutely could get a job but he is too lazy to do so. Even his aunt says he is too lazy but what is she supposed to do...punish his kids. The problem is not that he should be cut off entirely but he shouldn't be so comfortable. I think it was Ben Franklin that said people shouldn't be comfortable in poverty.

                      2. Medicare and Social Security should be means tested. If you are 65 and have $15 to $20 grand a year in pension and Social Security is not necessary then you don't get it. Sorry, that you paid in and don't get it but that is the breaks for you being a success during your life. There are worse things than that. Same with Medicare. They should also pull the cap off. Folks should pay taxes on every dollar of their income. They should also lower what businesses are responsible for. They might be more apt to hire then.

                      3. The death tax is unpopular but it should be there so that the Paris Hilton's of the world can't just inherit huge sums of money without any taxes. However, when the death tax should be adjusted is when it is a small business or farmland that a family is passing down. A lot of times in those cases, the business has to be broken up or land sold just to pay the tax. We could create revenue here without harming small business.

                      4. All deductions on taxes should be gone. They can even leave the tax rates where they are but just remove all the deductions. Make it easier to do my taxes. Also remove that earned income tax credit. I'm not 100% sure I understand this fully but I believe there are some people that get back in refund more than they paid in? That is wrong and lends itself to my first point that people are too comfortable in poverty now.

                      5. There needs to be a HUGE investment in community health and well being. I'm not a huge an of President Obama's health care plan but I will admit that something has to be done about health care. Tort reform that would help doctors when it comes to frivolous lawsuits would help them dramatically and if you took a little bit more reimbursement out of Medicare that would probably be OK but if you cut it too much then doctors are going to just quit taking Medicare patients. They already do that with Medicaid. Health care is our biggest expense and there are a lot of ways that it can be addressed but spending on it has to be reigned in.

                      6. Giving Clinton credit for his surpluss is wrong because of the rise of the web. Bush gets a lot of blame because of the spending on the wars. He gets the blame for the housing mess though, which he should get some of it, but so should everyone since Carter because they created this bomb that went off by sticking there nose in where it wasn't needed on lending and then turning a blind eye to the default swap stuff. With both this and healthcare there are WAY to many examples of catering to special interests and not having the well being of the American people in mind.

                      7. Finally, we need a national sales tax. Call it a VAT or whatever but those dollars should be earmarked for infrastructure spending. We need new roads, new sewers, airports, we need to upgrade our grid for carrying power and we need to not cater to special interests when we do it. Example, here in Kansas they are trying to build this HUGE clean coal plan, wind farm, methane farm, etc., in Western Kansas. I don't know if any of you guys have ever been there but nothing is in western kansas but wheat, corn and cattle. In order to do this they will need to spend billions on a grid. It is going to create probably 10,000 permanent jobs and save a lot of small towns and cities. The Sierra Club is saying it is going to harm the environment. Yes, maybe it will damage the environment slightly...doesn't everything. But what are we supposed to do for energy and jobs? Special interests are way to involved in all of these things.

                      IMO all of these sorts of things would help and I think most on this board would agree these are middle of the road type of things but the bastards in Washington are too weak to really try and do something that matters.
                      You know Darren if you'd have told me 10 years ago that someday I was going to solve the world's energy problems I'd have said your crazy.... now lets drop this big ball of oil out the window.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        OK here we go...

                        I'm a registered Republican, but I'm absolutely sick of the special interests and protections of the rich that we see from the government. The biggest problem with this country IMO, and the main reason these idiots in Washington can't seem to fix anything, is the special interests groups. Our elected officials are not working for us, they are working for them. Corporations who fund campaigns and offer retired politicians jobs when they leave office has to stop.

                        It shouldn't take hundreds of millions of dollars to fund a campaign. Changing the campaign rules to make it possible for "regular" people to run for office without the need of a political machine would go a long way to returning the focus of our Government to the needs of the people.

                        One simple way to do this is to make TV and radio ads for all political parties free. Ads should be provided in equal amounts and rotating time periods during an election. Let's face it, ABC, FOX, CBS, NBC and the radio stations don't own the air waves - the people do. Requiring broadcasters to provide free ads would be a public service and would become part of their licensing. Cable companies would be in the same boat.

                        It's time to take away the special interest groups and demand that politicians return the 'Government for the people' TO the people! our elected officials need to start voting based on the needs of the people they represent and stop worrying about making sure companies like Comcast get what they want because they're a campaign contributor! The fact that Meridith Baker (former FCC Commissioner) was given an executive position at Comcast less than 4 months after approving Comcast's purchase of NBC is outrageous! This is almost blatant payback but when the Justice department investigated they said it was appropriate. Really? ......gee I wonder how that happened!!)

                        We also have to fix our own attitudes. Its the same issue we talked about with the NFL, complacency! We allow the elected officials to accept donations from corporations and throw up our hands about 'backroom deals' and favoritism as just accept it as par for the course. It's out of control and until the people of this country demand a change it's going to continue.

                        Taxes that benefit the rich. Deals for companies that make campaign donations. Politicians who make a career out of public office. These are issues with SIMPLE fixes! A flat tax with no deductions for everyone in the nation. Earn $5,000 last year? You pay 30% of that in taxes. Earn $50,000? You pay 30%. Earn $50,000,000.00? You pay 30%. This is simple and it works! Why are we wasting so much time and resources on other tax plans? Because the people and companies who fund the election campaigns and make it possible for politicians to serve term after term after term want something for their money.

                        The fix is simple. Getting people to demand it isn't!
                        Official Driver of the Eagles Bandwagon!!!
                        Bleedin' Green since birth!

                        "Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many." - Mike Willey

                        ”Enjoy The Ride!!!” - Bob Marcus

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                        • #13
                          The flat tax solution is not fair to the poor. $6,000 to someone who only makes $20,000 a year is a much harder burden to bear than someone who pays $60,000 and is making $200,000. It is a lot easier to live on $140,000 than it is to live on $14,000.

                          There has to be a graduated tax structure, and many loopholes need to be eliminated.

                          Changing the structure will not be easy. For example, if you eliminate the mortgage deduction, the housing industry will completely collapse (even more than it has already).

                          There are no easy solutions to any of these problems. But, there are solutions. We just need good, hard thinking - and a sense of fairness.
                          "Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann



                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Stock then set a poverty level that pays zero and step it up to a reasonable wage rate and then make it a flat tax from that point on. Income tax SHOULD be based on your income, not your living situation. IMO someone who has 6 kids and earns $80,000 should be paying the same as a single person with the same income. That's called life choices and there are consequences for making bad choices. We have people in our society who consider children a means to increase their income through welfare. They have more kids just to be able to get a raise. (I see this on a regular basis so I know it's true.)

                            There is nothing fairer than telling people that everyone pays the same rate.
                            Official Driver of the Eagles Bandwagon!!!
                            Bleedin' Green since birth!

                            "Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many." - Mike Willey

                            ”Enjoy The Ride!!!” - Bob Marcus

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