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The Greatest Athlete of Our Time (OT)

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  • #46
    Re: The Greatest Athlete of Our Time (OT)

    How quickly we forget . . .

    Canada's #1 Eagles fan.

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    • #47
      Re: The Greatest Athlete of Our Time (OT)

      Originally posted by Leonard Tose
      While I'm looking that one up, I'll leave some interesting nuggets about the pussies on the golf course who qualify as "competition" on the PGA Tour right now.


      For venerable writer/historian Al Barkow, however, the issue is more cut-and-dried.

      "The players giving Tiger his competition are just as good as those who Jack faced in terms of pure talent, but they don't have the heart, the guts, the tenacity, maybe even the sense of pride that the [Tom] Watsons and [Lee] Trevinos had."

      Why, one wonders, would such things be lacking?

      "It has to do with money," Barkow continues, "although no one likes to say that. But today's players are so rich they don't have the real need for money the previous generation had, and are also so incredibly pampered and spoiled from the day they took up the game that they don't know how to respond to the dominant player. Watson, Trevino et al, gave Jack a good go and took him a few times head-to-head. I can't see anyone out there today giving Tiger that sort of competition. They don't need to."

      Career records of Jack Nicklaus' major competition
      Player Major titles PGA Tour wins Int'l wins
      Billy Casper 3 51 10
      Raymond Floyd 4 22 5
      Johnny Miller 2 25 7
      Arnold Palmer 8 62 11
      Gary Player 9 24 103
      Lee Trevino 6 29 11
      Tom Watson 8 39 4
      Totals 40 252 151

      To a large extent, the numbers bear Barkow out. For while the 100th-best player today may indeed surpass the 100th best of Nicklaus' era, the elite stars do seem to falter when facing Tiger on the biggest stages -- a circumstance highlighted at the 2002 Masters when a relatively nondescript final-round 71 carried Woods to victory after so-called rivals Ernie Els (73), Retief Goosen (74), Sergio Garcia (75) and Vijay Singh (76) collectively went to pieces around him.
      Perhaps if Tiger wasn't so dominant, his competition would appear to be better? Maybe it's his dominance that makes his competition look weaker than that which Nicklaus faced, when the reality is that Nicklaus wasn't head and shoulders about HIS competitors like Tiger is with his, thus allowing other guys like Watson and Trevino to win their share. Perhaps if Tiger was less dominant, guys like Mickelson and Singh would have had more wins.

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      • #48
        Re: The Greatest Athlete of Our Time (OT)

        Credit to BBF, who started another thread with this, I also felt it was appropriate for this thread.............................

        Yeah, those golfers are all just such pussies..................


        Wednesday, June 18, 2008
        Woods set to have season-ending knee surgery

        --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
        ESPN.com news services

        Tiger Woods has decided to have surgery on his left knee, which will end his 2008 season.

        Woods said on his Web site that he will have surgery on his anterior cruciate ligament. He also wrote that he needs time to rehabilitate a double stress fracture of his left tibia, which he said was discovered just before the Memorial Tournament in late May.

        And he revealed that he originally ruptured the ACL in 2007 while running at his home in Orlando after the British Open. He said he decided not to have surgery at that point, and he went on to win five of the next six events he entered (through his Target World Challenge in December).

        Woods said no date has been determined for the surgery, which will be the third in five years on Woods' left knee.

        Woods said doctors have assured him the outlook is positive. Doctors have told him that the stress fractures will heal with time.

        "I know much was made of my knee throughout the last week, and it was important to me that I disclose my condition publicly at an appropriate time. I wanted to be very respectful of the USGA and their incredibly hard work, and make sure the focus was on the U.S. Open," Woods said on his Web site. "Now, it is clear that the right thing to do is to listen to my doctors, follow through with this surgery, and focus my attention on rehabilitating my knee."


        Woods was last seen at Torrey Pines with the U.S. Open championship trophy in hand. He played 91 holes last week, finally beating Rocco Mediate in a playoff to win his 14th major, four behind Jack Nicklaus' record of 18.

        "While I am obviously disappointed to have to miss the remainder of the season, I have to do the right thing for my long-term health and look forward to returning to competitive golf when my doctors agree that my knee is sufficiently healthy," Woods wrote on his Web site. "My doctors assure me with the proper rehabilitation and training, the knee will be strong and there will be no long-term effects."

        Woods had arthroscopic surgery on his left knee on April 15, two days after he finished second in The Masters in April.

        Woods had committed to playing in next week's Buick Invitational. He hosts the AT&T National the week after that, at Congressional Country Club in Washington, D.C.


        Woods played only seven times worldwide this year and won five of them. He had been scheduled to play in the British Open in July and defend his PGA Championship title in August. He had never missed a major championship in his career.

        "For an athlete as talented and competitive as Tiger Woods, taking the rest of the season off must have been an incredibly difficult, yet necessary decision, one that we understand and support completely," PGA Tour commissioner Tim Finchem said in a statement. "The fact that he needs additional surgery only makes his performance and victory at last week's U.S. Open all the more impressive. First and foremost, our concern -- as it would be for any of our players facing surgery or illness -- is for Tiger's health and overall well-being, both on and off the golf course. We wish him the best toward a speedy recovery."

        Woods also will not be available for the Ryder Cup in September at Valhalla, just outside Louisville, Ky. According to the PGA of America, the ninth player in the U.S. standings through the PGA Championship will qualify for the U.S. team. By winning the U.S. Open, Woods mathematically clinched a spot on the team.

        Woods is ultra private with his health and personal life, never more so than at the U.S. Open. He never mentioned the torn ACL or the stress fracture, and wouldn't say how he was treating it, only that it was more sore as the week went on.

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        • #49
          Re: The Greatest Athlete of Our Time (OT)

          OK, I retract what I said about him taking a long time to come back -- however, all we knew at the time was that he had arthroscopic knee surgery to clean out cartilage.

          However, IMO, this is just more proof that you don't need to be much of an athlete to compete at the highest level of golf. In no other game can a competitor go out there with a torn ACL and hope to compete.

          Golf makes few physical demands of competitors, so you dont have to be very athletic to get out there. You can even do it on an unstable knee.
          Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

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          • #50
            Re: The Greatest Athlete of Our Time (OT)

            yeah, its a cinch no NFL QB is ever gonna gut it out and play with a broken ankle either, much less throw 4 TDs or some such heroic performance. What a pair of loser athletes.

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            • #51
              Re: The Greatest Athlete of Our Time (OT)

              Originally posted by Leonard Tose
              OK, I retract what I said about him taking a long time to come back -- however, all we knew at the time was that he had arthroscopic knee surgery to clean out cartilage.

              However, IMO, this is just more proof that you don't need to be much of an athlete to compete at the highest level of golf. In no other game can a competitor go out there with a torn ACL and hope to compete.

              Golf makes few physical demands of competitors, so you dont have to be very athletic to get out there. You can even do it on an unstable knee.
              Yeah, I guess if that was your position you could/would attempt to spin it that way.

              Although I think that about 95% of the world would laugh at that spin, but thats just IMHO.

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              • #52
                Re: The Greatest Athlete of Our Time (OT)

                LT: You are half right.

                Golf isn't as purely athletic a sport as basketball, football, etc. But it is an extremely athletic sport in a different way. Flexibility, core strength, timing, touch and mental capacity and toughness all play key parts and Tiger has all of those. That said, it isn't impossible to play without an ACL. It isn't impossible to play football without an ACL. In extreme cases, NFL players have played without an ACL. Garrison Hearst did it. Jack Youngblood played with a broken leg. So did McNabb.

                The thing about the ACL tear is stability. I played golf in high school and college. I tore my ACL my senior year in high school playing basketball but didn't fix it until after the golf season in the spring. I played pretty well at times but did feel unstable and hit some pretty hard hooks because I could transfer my weight off my back foot.

                Now I didn't have a stress fracture. That is what makes it pretty impressive is the stress fracture thing.

                You can't say he is not an athlete though. You can't say most of them are not athletes. Ernie Els was a championship tennis player as a kid. Greg Norman was a stud rugby player in Australia. Phil Mickelson can throw an 85 mile an hour fast ball. Hale Irwin played football for the University of Colorado.

                Are these guys as good of athletes as Deion Sanders or Bo Jackson.... no. But Tiger is a great competitor and can play at a high level when it counts.
                You know Darren if you'd have told me 10 years ago that someday I was going to solve the world's energy problems I'd have said your crazy.... now lets drop this big ball of oil out the window.

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                • #53
                  Re: The Greatest Athlete of Our Time (OT)

                  I don't see many 60 year olds out playing football, but I see plenty of them on the golf courses here, playing damned well. I was with a 63 yr old scratch golfer TODAY.
                  http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

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                  • #54
                    Re: The Greatest Athlete of Our Time (OT)

                    Originally posted by FRESH
                    I don't see many 60 year olds out playing football, but I see plenty of them on the golf courses here, playing damned well. I was with a 63 yr old scratch golfer TODAY.

                    Don't see many 60 year old football players playing football either! Weak!

                    You haven't looked real hard then, there are many many leagues that "elders" partake of in many many sports, including football and basketball and baseball..... hell, my 85 year old father in law is in the senior Olympics each year, shooting a basketball is part of it as is a football toss.

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                    • #55
                      Re: The Greatest Athlete of Our Time (OT)

                      Originally posted by MDFAN
                      Originally posted by FRESH
                      I don't see many 60 year olds out playing football, but I see plenty of them on the golf courses here, playing damned well. I was with a 63 yr old scratch golfer TODAY.

                      Don't see many 60 year old football players playing football either! Weak!

                      You haven't looked real hard then, there are many many leagues that "elders" partake of in many many sports, including football and basketball and baseball..... hell, my 85 year old father in law is in the senior Olympics each year, shooting a basketball is part of it as is a football toss.
                      No, now THAT is WEAK. ROFLMAO!!!!!
                      http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

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                      • #56
                        Re: The Greatest Athlete of Our Time (OT)

                        I have no problem with Carl Lweis being mentioned since he DID have a long career at the top. He was so superior in three events for 12 years.

                        Tiger has been the best for about 12 years, so they are pretty equal there. I think you can argue that both golf and sprinting are EQUAL in athletic ability. I mean, come on, how athletic do you have to be to run a straight line and/or jump straight. Are we saying that being fast makes you athletic? What if Tiger can run fast.....or SWING fast. Does his fastest swing known to mankind make him athletic? My opinion, being great at ONE thing alone does not make you athletic....it is being good at multiple things....like Wilie Mays at batting, running, power hitting and fielding. Ali at dancing, punching, jabbing and being smart.

                        The problem is with the people who want to call hitting a moving ball athletic (softball, baseball, etc.), but not when hitting a tiny stationary ball to an exact location 100-300 yards away....under varying conditions (grass, sand, dirt, rough, obstacles, etc.). You get to be called an athlete because you can kick a ball between two poles, be 7' and out jump others or dunk, or push another fat man out of your way, but not for walking several miles while violently twisting your body with a club in a precision manner about 40 times, then judging a putt and doing it.

                        Anyway, are we talking about the best athlete or the most athletic here? If the most athletic, then I will have to say Brian Jordan, Dieon Sanders, Jordon and the underachieved Bo Jackson were more athletic than the greats of the game. If the best athlete....wow, there were so many greats like Jordon, Gretsky, Woods, Cale Sanderson (unbeatable for years), Griffy Jr., Federer, Sampras, etc. I'll bet some of you can even name some extreme sports athlete or motor sports stars like Gordon, Chamberlin, etc.

                        BTW, those who know Tiger will tell you he can be a major arsehole, and they will tell you that he is very intelligent about what he says to the media, which is what give him the appeal.
                        Pedro

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                        • #57
                          Re: The Greatest Athlete of Our Time (OT)

                          Originally posted by FRESH
                          Originally posted by MDFAN
                          Originally posted by FRESH
                          I don't see many 60 year olds out playing football, but I see plenty of them on the golf courses here, playing damned well. I was with a 63 yr old scratch golfer TODAY.

                          Don't see many 60 year old football players playing football either! Weak!

                          You haven't looked real hard then, there are many many leagues that "elders" partake of in many many sports, including football and basketball and baseball..... hell, my 85 year old father in law is in the senior Olympics each year, shooting a basketball is part of it as is a football toss.
                          No, now THAT is WEAK. ROFLMAO!!!!!
                          Umm, right!

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Re: The Greatest Athlete of Our Time (OT)

                            Originally posted by MDFAN
                            Originally posted by FRESH
                            I don't see many 60 year olds out playing football, but I see plenty of them on the golf courses here, playing damned well. I was with a 63 yr old scratch golfer TODAY.

                            Don't see many 60 year old football players playing football either! Weak!

                            You haven't looked real hard then, there are many many leagues that "elders" partake of in many many sports, including football and basketball and baseball..... hell, my 85 year old father in law is in the senior Olympics each year, shooting a basketball is part of it as is a football toss.
                            Not bad. The excuses and predjudices from the young haters aside, I live among 75,000 of the best educated, college grads in the US. Its absolutely amazing, the number of military, business and athletic heroes who are here. I like the attitude of the former college athletes, together we have played every sport imaginable and thousands of us continue to compete in baseball, track, powerlifting, whatever, into our later years yet, we all agree that mastering golf is the hardest sport of all.

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                            • #59
                              Re: The Greatest Athlete of Our Time (OT)

                              "Don't see many 60 year old football players playing football either! Weak!"

                              I don't get this game....repeat what I say and then call it weak. That's weak. .... and weird.

                              Dutch, you people in the Villages creep me out. It's like "Pleasantville", or the retirement community for the Supreme Race or something....I've been dealing with some trade issues there recently, and the exclusivity is hard to miss.
                              http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

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                              • #60
                                Re: The Greatest Athlete of Our Time (OT)

                                Originally posted by MDFAN
                                Originally posted by Leonard Tose
                                OK, I retract what I said about him taking a long time to come back -- however, all we knew at the time was that he had arthroscopic knee surgery to clean out cartilage.

                                However, IMO, this is just more proof that you don't need to be much of an athlete to compete at the highest level of golf. In no other game can a competitor go out there with a torn ACL and hope to compete.

                                Golf makes few physical demands of competitors, so you dont have to be very athletic to get out there. You can even do it on an unstable knee.
                                Yeah, I guess if that was your position you could/would attempt to spin it that way.

                                Although I think that about 95% of the world would laugh at that spin, but thats just IMHO.

                                MD, try not to confuse what I'm arguing here. I'm not saying Tiger Woods isn't a great golfer. Of course he is. Maybe the greatest ever.

                                I'm arguing that golfers should not be in the conversation of "who is the world's greatest athlete?" That's all.

                                You've got guys walking around the golf course with a torn ACL and still competing at a high level, you've got guys teeing off at major PGA tournaments well into their 50s -- that should be a strong clue that athletic ability is not what defines a golfer.

                                Tiger got to the end of the US Open the other day and the CBS guy grabbed him for a quick interview after his round. Tiger spent half of the interview talking about the clubs he picked in certain key situations.

                                A quarterback drops back to pass and has a second or two to survey an entire field of flying defenders before making a decision. A golfer's major decision is what club to pick. I'm sorry, but if your major decisions have to do with what club you're taking out of your bag, you're not involved in a game that requires a high degree of athleticism. Period.
                                Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

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