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GO PHILS! 46-28 2nd Half [45-29 Actual NL EAST CHAMPS!]

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  • #31
    Re: GO PHILS! 46-28 Second Half

    Same board is reporting Golson was promoted to Reading as well. Nice to see the former 1st rounder getting hot and being pushed.

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: GO PHILS! 46-28 Second Half

      Originally posted by stevemc
      Same board is reporting Golson was promoted to Reading as well. Nice to see the former 1st rounder getting hot and being pushed.

      finally. would like to see the Phils stop making such a priority of "toolsy" guys like Golson, and just draft more baseball players, like Cardenas.
      Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

      Comment


      • #33
        Re: GO PHILS! 46-28 Second Half

        [quote=Leonard Tose]
        Originally posted by "Vote for Kalas":5ef12
        Very little of the good core moving forward derives from Gillick, however, and he has made alot of stupid mistakes IMO...

        If Gillick has no authority and disagrees so vehemently with Monty and the owners, then he should resign and walk away with whatever dignity he has left intact. I doubt that is the case. Gillick was hired and agreed to take the job because he basically agrees with the Phillies philosophy and thought they were a team on the rise he could get over the top.

        He has stagnated the team and we are on pace again to miss the playoffs most likely...the team does have good talent, but really needs pitching big time and better 3B and OF IMO. There is no salary cap, they dumped Abreu for trash and will likely dump Burrell soon for same so whining about money not being available is hogwash IMO. That is on the owners I agree, but if Gillick is so respected he should be able to make the case and get them to invest enough to build a winner. 95M was good 4 years ago, but now they are roughly 14th in payroll and need to pony up. Gillick should be abale to do it with 95M if he does it smartly (which he has not yet), but having that extra cash to use would make it much easier.

        most of your rips here seem to be about money -- that's on the owners.

        i've always been an abreu fan, but it's certainly an arguable point that they made the right move trading him last year at the deadline. his game is on the decline. and the fact is, the yanks were the only team interested in trading for him. so they were never going to get much.

        they have not suffered offensively at all, despite abreu's departure. even the most ardent abreu fan has to recognize that. it's also a fair point to contend it was time to turn the team over to utley and howard. they have certainly not disappointed.

        as for me, i attribute that offensive production to manuel and milt thompson. thompson was on the 93 phils, which was a great team for power and patience. i recall a scout saying that year: "Every time I look up, they've got someone on first and third." and i think manuel deserves his fair share of credit as well. how else do you explain rowand becoming an OBP machine this year?

        that's the main reason i want manuel to say. it's pretty clear the phils as an organization are old-school in their approach to hitting. they preach aggression at the plate, make platitudes about speed and small ball. but at the big league level, they're an OBP and run-scoring machine. somewhere there's a disconnect. i love this offense -- keep charlie.

        and i would argue that gillick deserves one more year to recast the pitching staff.

        i think it's unfair for you to rip gillick by predicting they will dump burrell. what have they done with burrell other than try and get him going? they're not roasting him in public. face it, the guy was a black hole in the first half, even with his decent OBP. that's saying something. hopefully, his play will improve in the second half.[/quote:5ef12]

        Not really money although yes they need to spend at least top 10 payroll levels to compete IMO...no, it is more about HOW they spend the money that concerns me...that is on GILLICK as GM.

        He gave Gordon a multi-year deal and it has been a very mixed bag...mostly mediocre.

        He gave Eaton a multi-year deal and he has been mediocre.

        Helms has been underwhelming. Fasano and Franklin were awful. Rhodes might have been worse.

        Nunez? lol...Werth? Barajas? AGon? Garcia?

        Abreu is on the decline and, just like he was underpaid when he was producing every year, he is overpaid now for his production at the end of his deal. My biggest problem was what Gillick settled for and why he dumped Abreu then. He could have easily waited until the off-season to deal him and might have had more value. He posted a .926 OPS with the Yanks after the trade and was widely heralded as important to turning around their season and making the playoffs. He could have helped the Phils make the playoffs too and then had more value on the market IMO. Gillick either got fleeced by the Yanks or TPTB forced him to dump salary at the deadline. I do not buy the latter so IMO it is the former.

        The offense is scary good, but Abreu only enhanced that, he never dragged it down. As for turning the team over to Utley & Howard, I think that is hogwash. The Phillies tried to say Abreu was blocking them from leading the team, but stated out the other side of their mouth that Abreu was not a leader. Which is it? That is a red herring IMO and silly. Talent wins, not leadership. Dumping talent for no return is stupid. Gillick actually got very lucky the team performed well in the 2nd half. If they had gone in the tank, he would have been ripped much harder for that bad trade.

        I agree about Manuel and Milt. I like both although Manuel does need to improve how he handles a pitching staff IMO. I could live with them if a better GM was brought in although a new guy usually wants to have their own choice at manager. We need someone who evaluates talent better, allocates resources better and can help us build a long term winner here while also building around the core so we can win now. We need our Andy Reid.

        Gillick has been trying to dump Burrell for over a year and usually takes the opportunity to comment on LF being a weak spot as he did on CSN. He also did nothing when Green publicly called out Burrell earlier this season or during the off-season when Green made his infamous "look in the mirror" rant about Burrell. Gillick also offered Soriano 120M over 8 years when he was trying to deal Burrell. It is clear the Phillies feel stuck with Burrell and want to get rid of him. I applaud how Manuel has handled him, supported him and tried to get him going which is working since Burrell is red hot in July.

        I agree Burrell needs to perform better and is overpaid for his production now at the end of his deal. I just believe the Phillies have not treated Burrell totally fairly and have made him, like Rolen, Schill, Abreu, Thome et al., the scapegoat to some extent for alot of their own shortcomings i.e. not building enough talent around the core especially pitching to win anything of any value. I hope he does very well with his new team.
        Eliminate distractions, create energy, fear nothing, and attack everything.

        -Andy Reid

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: GO PHILS! 46-28 Second Half

          Originally posted by BIGPHILLY
          6-4 since the ALL STAR Break.

          Updated Rest of the Way: 40-24

          Must sweep the NATIONALS. Can have no excuse. This could be the 10 game winning streak I require to have a chance at 90 wins.

          NATIONALS x 3
          PIRATES x 3

          ? C'mon. We can do this...Even with this staff... [-o<
          Updated Rest of the Way: 38-24

          Getting more realistic by the day...must get that 10 game winning streak...5 down...5 to go...4 straight vs. the Nationals and Pirates remain...
          Carson Wentz ERA


          NFC East Titles:
          Playoff Appearances:
          NFC Title Games:
          Super Bowl Titles:

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: GO PHILS! 46-28 Second Half

            [quote=Vote for Kalas][quote="Leonard Tose":04d1c]
            Originally posted by "Vote for Kalas":04d1c
            Very little of the good core moving forward derives from Gillick, however, and he has made alot of stupid mistakes IMO...

            If Gillick has no authority and disagrees so vehemently with Monty and the owners, then he should resign and walk away with whatever dignity he has left intact. I doubt that is the case. Gillick was hired and agreed to take the job because he basically agrees with the Phillies philosophy and thought they were a team on the rise he could get over the top.

            He has stagnated the team and we are on pace again to miss the playoffs most likely...the team does have good talent, but really needs pitching big time and better 3B and OF IMO. There is no salary cap, they dumped Abreu for trash and will likely dump Burrell soon for same so whining about money not being available is hogwash IMO. That is on the owners I agree, but if Gillick is so respected he should be able to make the case and get them to invest enough to build a winner. 95M was good 4 years ago, but now they are roughly 14th in payroll and need to pony up. Gillick should be abale to do it with 95M if he does it smartly (which he has not yet), but having that extra cash to use would make it much easier.

            most of your rips here seem to be about money -- that's on the owners.

            i've always been an abreu fan, but it's certainly an arguable point that they made the right move trading him last year at the deadline. his game is on the decline. and the fact is, the yanks were the only team interested in trading for him. so they were never going to get much.

            they have not suffered offensively at all, despite abreu's departure. even the most ardent abreu fan has to recognize that. it's also a fair point to contend it was time to turn the team over to utley and howard. they have certainly not disappointed.

            as for me, i attribute that offensive production to manuel and milt thompson. thompson was on the 93 phils, which was a great team for power and patience. i recall a scout saying that year: "Every time I look up, they've got someone on first and third." and i think manuel deserves his fair share of credit as well. how else do you explain rowand becoming an OBP machine this year?

            that's the main reason i want manuel to say. it's pretty clear the phils as an organization are old-school in their approach to hitting. they preach aggression at the plate, make platitudes about speed and small ball. but at the big league level, they're an OBP and run-scoring machine. somewhere there's a disconnect. i love this offense -- keep charlie.

            and i would argue that gillick deserves one more year to recast the pitching staff.

            i think it's unfair for you to rip gillick by predicting they will dump burrell. what have they done with burrell other than try and get him going? they're not roasting him in public. face it, the guy was a black hole in the first half, even with his decent OBP. that's saying something. hopefully, his play will improve in the second half.[/quote:04d1c]

            Not really money although yes they need to spend at least top 10 payroll levels to compete IMO...no, it is more about HOW they spend the money that concerns me...that is on GILLICK as GM.

            He gave Gordon a multi-year deal and it has been a very mixed bag...mostly mediocre.

            He gave Eaton a multi-year deal and he has been mediocre.

            Helms has been underwhelming. Fasano and Franklin were awful. Rhodes might have been worse.

            Nunez? lol...Werth? Barajas? AGon? Garcia?

            Abreu is on the decline and, just like he was underpaid when he was producing every year, he is overpaid now for his production at the end of his deal. My biggest problem was what Gillick settled for and why he dumped Abreu then. He could have easily waited until the off-season to deal him and might have had more value. He posted a .926 OPS with the Yanks after the trade and was widely heralded as important to turning around their season and making the playoffs. He could have helped the Phils make the playoffs too and then had more value on the market IMO. Gillick either got fleeced by the Yanks or TPTB forced him to dump salary at the deadline. I do not buy the latter so IMO it is the former.

            The offense is scary good, but Abreu only enhanced that, he never dragged it down. As for turning the team over to Utley & Howard, I think that is hogwash. The Phillies tried to say Abreu was blocking them from leading the team, but stated out the other side of their mouth that Abreu was not a leader. Which is it? That is a red herring IMO and silly. Talent wins, not leadership. Dumping talent for no return is stupid. Gillick actually got very lucky the team performed well in the 2nd half. If they had gone in the tank, he would have been ripped much harder for that bad trade.

            I agree about Manuel and Milt. I like both although Manuel does need to improve how he handles a pitching staff IMO. I could live with them if a better GM was brought in although a new guy usually wants to have their own choice at manager. We need someone who evaluates talent better, allocates resources better and can help us build a long term winner here while also building around the core so we can win now. We need our Andy Reid.

            Gillick has been trying to dump Burrell for over a year and usually takes the opportunity to comment on LF being a weak spot as he did on CSN. He also did nothing when Green publicly called out Burrell earlier this season or during the off-season when Green made his infamous "look in the mirror" rant about Burrell. Gillick also offered Soriano 120M over 8 years when he was trying to deal Burrell. It is clear the Phillies feel stuck with Burrell and want to get rid of him. I applaud how Manuel has handled him, supported him and tried to get him going which is working since Burrell is red hot in July.

            I agree Burrell needs to perform better and is overpaid for his production now at the end of his deal. I just believe the Phillies have not treated Burrell totally fairly and have made him, like Rolen, Schill, Abreu, Thome et al., the scapegoat to some extent for alot of their own shortcomings i.e. not building enough talent around the core especially pitching to win anything of any value. I hope he does very well with his new team.[/quote:04d1c]


            i'm not going to go point by point here, but i will make this one statement -- i think the abreu trade was done to free up money so he could make a big pitching acquisition in the offseason. to me, the trade was essentially abreu for freddy garcia.

            obviously that didnt work out. but they only are on the hook for one year with garcia. i'm willing to give gillick one more crack at building a pitching staff around this offense.

            i'm not thrilled with gillick's pickups, for the most part. to his credit, he's been willing to dump them when they haven't panned out. i dont see guys getting run out there because the GM has sunk guaranteed money into them and the manager feels obliged, as i believe happened under wade.

            meanwhile, he's been aggressively promoting minor leaguers, particularly pitchers. i think he knows he's going to have to grow a staff, rather than overspend on mediocrities like lieber and eaton -- or trade for suspects like garcia.

            as for abreu's perceived lack of leadership -- i dont know what the situation was there. i always like abreu and appreciated him as a player. i dont think they needed to get rid of abreu because he was a lazy cancer -- i just think it was a good thing to turn it over to Utley and Howard.

            and i agree about dallas green -- he has no place speaking for the organization anymore. however, i dont think gillick can muzzle him at this point.
            Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: GO PHILS! 46-28 Second Half

              Great googly-moogly this Howard kid is incredible. Wins the game last night in the 14th with a 2 run homer and now just goes yard for his 29th of the year (85 RBIs) in the 3rd to take the lead.

              Comment


              • #37
                Re: GO PHILS! 46-28 Second Half

                Steve imagine what he could do right now if he go off to a good start at the beginning of the year. I really hope last year and this year's slow starts are exceptions and not a regular occurrence for him.
                Official Driver of the Eagles Bandwagon!!!
                Bleedin' Green since birth!

                "Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many." - Mike Willey

                ”Enjoy The Ride!!!” - Bob Marcus

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: GO PHILS! 46-28 Second Half

                  Originally posted by stevemc
                  Great googly-moogly this Howard kid is incredible. Wins the game last night in the 14th with a 2 run homer and now just goes yard for his 29th of the year (85 RBIs) in the 3rd to take the lead.

                  Cholly's Wallbanger's just might slug their way into the postseason.
                  Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: GO PHILS! 46-28 Second Half

                    Not any more. Watch this offense grind to a halt without that critical #3 hitter...He was so important.

                    You can wrap this season up in a giant baggie and call it "crap" because it was never meant to be.
                    Carson Wentz ERA


                    NFC East Titles:
                    Playoff Appearances:
                    NFC Title Games:
                    Super Bowl Titles:

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: GO PHILS! 46-28 Second Half

                      Originally posted by BIGPHILLY
                      Not any more. Watch this offense grind to a halt without that critical #3 hitter...He was so important.

                      You can wrap this season up in a giant baggie and call it "crap" because it was never meant to be.
                      They are going to tease us with some good offense in Utley's absence. It won't last. The pitching is just brutal. We won't be able to win the 10-9 games now. With Utley out - the offense won't sputter that noticeably but the pitching woes will be accentuated.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: GO PHILS! 46-28 Second Half

                        Eagles open camp. That's fun.
                        Carson Wentz ERA


                        NFC East Titles:
                        Playoff Appearances:
                        NFC Title Games:
                        Super Bowl Titles:

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: GO PHILS! 46-28 Second Half

                          "The pitching is just brutal. "

                          Could have been posted on or about May 15th and been just as true then as it is today.

                          It's one thing to watch a team with good pitching keeping you in games and still having a chance in the later innings, even if you don't win......... but it's just "brutal" to watch ANY team with poor pitching just fritter away games in the latter innings. Even games they don't lose they keep you guessing if in fact they will let the whole thing get away.

                          Said it before, and I know it's not prophecy --- The Bullpen Sucks!!!!!!!!!!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: GO PHILS! 46-28 Second Half [Updated 26-16 as of 8/17]

                            Need to go 26 and 16 from today to get to 90 wins.

                            Sweep Pitt and it means a very realistic 23 and 16. Wow. Can they do it?

                            90 Wins gets us to the playoffs one way or another. Bank it.
                            Carson Wentz ERA


                            NFC East Titles:
                            Playoff Appearances:
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                            • #44
                              Re: GO PHILS! 46-28 Second Half [Updated 26-16 as of 8/17]

                              they will not sweep Pit, BP. not with the way this offense is going. hopefully, they win the series

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: GO PHILS! 46-28 Second Half [Updated 26-16 as of 8/17]

                                I was driving home from work earlier and thinking they've played 120 now so I had to round up some scratch paper, get out the old calculator, throw a few numbers into excel, scratch my head a few times and then look up this thread to see where they're at. I'm on their side. We'll see. Win series, take a couple of sweeps, and don't get swept will do it IMHO.
                                Wait until next year is a terrible philosophy
                                Hope is not a strategy
                                RIP

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