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  • #16
    Originally posted by sfphillyfan View Post
    Forget about the cheap thing although I did say just as good. And forget about position of LB. Any hint of "We think you should take X player over Y player" from Howie and Banner is bad news.

    Look, those guys really stepped up and went all-out to add talent after the lockout ended. They get a pass from me for a while, even though I could have done without Banner's victory lap afterward.

    Otherwise, I don't know what to say about the talent procurement practices of the Philadelphia Eagles. Obviously, Howie and Joe have input. I used to rail against it, now I've learned to live with it.

    Of course, when they add Asomugha, Rodgers-Cromartie, Babin, et al in the span of about a week, that helps!
    Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

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    • #17
      Originally posted by FRESH View Post
      Point is, this is a big risk at a time we should NOT be taking it, and with no prior evidence that makes it a good risk.
      Castillo has succeeded in every position he has held including one, OL, that he had never done before....so right there you have the precedent that could be used as support for this change to DC as not super risky + he knows the schemes inside/out, he knows most of the personnel well and they know/trust him....he has also got talented position coaches and they, and him, are all good teachers which is vital while working to build this defense as a cohesive unit.

      You seem still stuck on this one year or bust scenario...even if we do not win the ring this season, we are setup to be very good for years to come...we are not in some one year time window where we to push all our chips to the center...we cannot be afraid to take risks & make mistakes because sometimes the "safe" choice is not as good as the alternatives.

      Absolutely, Reid does not have a perfect track record, no HC does. As I said, the majority of them however have panned out even when the initial reaction was panic and doubt by fans, media and whoever else. People trust and respect Reid and they work very hard for him....and he, in return, provides them great opportunities & challenges to be the best they can be.

      I just do not see this as some sort of crapshoot or total gamble...I think Castillo is a good choice and is in a good situation to succeed. I could be wrong and it could blow up on us, but I would think the only way that happens is if we have massive injuries or some other type of major stuff like that.
      Eliminate distractions, create energy, fear nothing, and attack everything.

      -Andy Reid

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      • #18
        Originally posted by sfphillyfan View Post
        This is completely revisionist about Howie. Nobody questioned Roseman's ability to manage the cap, wheel and deal, run operations. Everyone was/is concerned whether Howie and Banner were stepping too far into the talent evaluation role that should be performed by football guys.

        At this point, it's yet to be proven that Roseman is a success at evaluating talent, if indeed he's dipping into that role. Personally, I don't think any non-football guy should be in charge of talent evaluation. The accountant at the Philadelphia Orchestra doesn't pick the musicians. Howie shouldn't be allowed to pick our players.

        If Reid is saying "I want that player" and Howie's job is to get that player for the cheapest price ($ or draft picks) as possible, then good. That's how I want this team to work.

        But if Howie and Banner are saying "We think Casey Matthews is just as good and cheaper than any guy you like, Andy", then no. That's a recipe for disaster.

        I wouldn't say Howie is a successful GM yet. That takes years to evaluate. Hey, even Hendry looked like a genius early on.
        Fair point, but again who says you have to have only football people make personnel evaluation decisions? There are certainly examples of football people being terrible GM; if a guy is talented enough and smart enough anyone can do personnel evaluation...there is not some dark magic that only people who have been in the game know that someone else cannot learn...why restrict your available talent pool for your team? As a business owner, its not smart to eliminate a large segment of talent based on a mostly artificial basis...the people who are open to talent, think outside the box and, most importantly, work hard to attract talented people who want to achieve and be challenged often do best in their fields...

        I think Roseman has done a very good job so far....alot of people thought he was a stooge of Banner and would never be able to handle the various roles of a GM. So far that has been proven false.
        Eliminate distractions, create energy, fear nothing, and attack everything.

        -Andy Reid

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Leonard Tose View Post
          Of course, VFK. I recognize that it's early and Castillo can silence the doubters, of which I am one.

          That said, people doubted Rory Segrest, and he did, in fact, completely suck at his job. So did Sean McDermott.

          Until you prove it, there are going to be doubters. With regards to Castillo, I just am not a believer. I think he's part of the woodwork in Eagle land and it's just accepted lore that he was a great o-line coach. I am not so certain about that.
          I have no problem with the doubt....its when it is written and echoed that he has already failed, that he will never succeed and that the hiring was a mistake is where I get agitated...no one knows what will happen

          Of course he has to prove it, every day, week and month he has the job, but to jump to conclusions based on 2 preseason games and a TC is beyond absurd.

          As for the claim he is not a respected and admired OL coach, I guess all the players, coaches, GM, media and other people in the league who have spoken highly of him or respect him are either lying or dead wrong....he was a OL coach for 10+ years under a HC with not much patience for incompetence...that would be a pretty nifty trick to fake everyone out for that long
          Eliminate distractions, create energy, fear nothing, and attack everything.

          -Andy Reid

          Comment


          • #20
            Bad logic VFK. Terrible logic.

            Just because football people can be terrible GMs doesn't mean non-football people can be great GMs. They are two separate logical statements.

            Like I said, there is a certain skillset in evaluating football talent. Just like there is a certain skillset in evaluating talent in the arts or sciences. Do you think the guys at google let the marketing department evaluate their engineers? of course not. You let people who have "been there done that" evaluate talent.

            That's the part of Howie I question. Can he evaluate talent? I highly doubt it. Now, if he's smart enough to just trust the scouts and coaches, great. But the question is how much say he has in the talent evaluation. Anything more than 0% is too much.
            Last edited by sfphillyfan; 08-23-2011, 12:33 AM.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by sfphillyfan View Post
              Just because football people can be terrible GMs doesn't mean non-football people can be great GMs. They are two separate logical statements.
              Correct, but it's just as bad logic to assume that just because somebody performed different functions at one point means they have no ability to evaluate football talent. Like you say they are two different jobs, and skill at one indicates absolutely nothing about their ability to do a different job. Just because Roseman may have certain trading/cap skills does not logically prevent him from being a good football guy too.

              That sounds basically like a preconceived notion, and you aren't going to give Roseman a chance no matter what (since it seems you are saying, from our vantage point on the outside with no firsthand experience of his reports, that his football evaluations should be completely ignored by the team). He's obviously been doing some evaluation for a while (despite whatever other titles he had), and obviously Reid etc. liked his evaluations enough to hire him in his current job. It's not like Roseman is the grand architect of the team; I'd think Reid is calling the overall shots, and I'm sure Reid will balance Roseman's stuff against scouts and his own opinions when making the final call. It's nothing like some other GMs who are in the position to dictate to the coaches.

              Frankly I've kinda liked the last 2-3 drafts... some duds, but they accumulated enough picks that they have gotten more than the usual complement of keepable players. Now, identifying and drafting *stars* -- that remains to be seen.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Vote for Kalas View Post
                As for the claim he is not a respected and admired OL coach, I guess all the players, coaches, GM, media and other people in the league who have spoken highly of him or respect him are either lying or dead wrong
                ...Or just being polite, or not wanting to burn bridges or needlessly make enemies, or provide "bulletin board" material etc. etc.

                Coaches and GMs almost never badmouth another coach unless they have an axe to grind, and almost universally speak highly of each other. They never know who they may be looking to work for in 5 years.

                The media rarely if ever talk badly about a position coach either, and most probably can't tell the difference anyway. To an extent the same is true of players. They rarely talk about a position coach and when they do, how often is it negative? Not to mention that when players talk about how good or bad a coach is, they are really talking about how much they like them.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by eagle eye View Post
                  ...Or just being polite, or not wanting to burn bridges or needlessly make enemies, or provide "bulletin board" material etc. etc.

                  Coaches and GMs almost never badmouth another coach unless they have an axe to grind, and almost universally speak highly of each other. They never know who they may be looking to work for in 5 years.

                  The media rarely if ever talk badly about a position coach either, and most probably can't tell the difference anyway. To an extent the same is true of players. They rarely talk about a position coach and when they do, how often is it negative? Not to mention that when players talk about how good or bad a coach is, they are really talking about how much they like them.
                  Have you EVER, and I mean EVER heard somebody, ANYBODY badmouth an assistant coach? What's a player supposed to say? My coach BLOWS? He'd be looking for a new place to play the next day. "Well respected" gets thrown around a lot in the NFL. When it comes down to it, it really doesn't amount to a pisshole in the snow.
                  "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

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                  • #24
                    Look guys the bottom line here is that the Eagles opened the off season with a serious house cleaning of the defensive coaches. they took their time in evaluating the replacement DC and then shocked us with the Castillo announcement. At that point I think most of us considered this year a continuation of the rebuilding we had started. The Eagles themselves have ratcheted the expectations up and they are responsible for the pressure that's been created with the signings and "all-in" mantra.

                    At this point we don't have the luxury of allowing Castillo to learn on the job this year. He would have had a season or so with a limited pass by most fans. If the defense was decent and showed improvement from last year in the redzone I think most fans would have considered it a good sign and looked for better things from them next year after a season of adjustment by Juan. But the Eagles took that away by bringing in so much talent on a 1 year basis. This is the year we go for it. We are definitely "all-in" since we lose so many guys next year.

                    I have to think that the Eagles wouldn't have put so much pressure and so many expectations into this with a rookie DC if they really had any questions about Castillo's ability to field a winner. They had this plan in place for two to three years. They knew what they planned to do when they settled on Juan in March. We may be scared to death about it, but let's hope that the Eagles really are 100% confident in his ability to bring them a title. As fans, hope is all we have!!!
                    Official Driver of the Eagles Bandwagon!!!
                    Bleedin' Green since birth!

                    "Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many." - Mike Willey

                    ”Enjoy The Ride!!!” - Bob Marcus

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                    • #25
                      Vin I disagree with you about Roseman not being allowed to evaluate talent. As long as he doesn't do anything more than make suggestions then I'm fine with the NovaCare lunch lady helping to evalute the players. Roseman has been around the game and the players in ways that you and I haven't been and yet we sit here and make statements about who can play and who can't. Granted we don't have the ability to sign or reject a player, but we don't know that Roseman does either. I suspect that Banner and Roseman make suggestions and Andy or one of the other "football" guys reviews it and agrees or disagrees, but ultimately Reid is the guy at the end of the day who decides who stays and who goes. What happens to get to that point is nothing I care about as long as the final choices are made by the Head Coach and the Coordinators.
                      Official Driver of the Eagles Bandwagon!!!
                      Bleedin' Green since birth!

                      "Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many." - Mike Willey

                      ”Enjoy The Ride!!!” - Bob Marcus

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Jukin View Post
                        At this point we don't have the luxury of allowing Castillo to learn on the job this year. He would have had a season or so with a limited pass by most fans. If the defense was decent and showed improvement from last year in the redzone I think most fans would have considered it a good sign and looked for better things from them next year after a season of adjustment by Juan. But the Eagles took that away by bringing in so much talent on a 1 year basis. This is the year we go for it. We are definitely "all-in" since we lose so many guys next year.
                        You're assuming all the players signed on 1 year deals will leave and/or that there will be some huge talent dropoff when they do so....if they play well the Eagles have every chance to sign them again and, in the overall, the players we signed to 1 year deals are mostly backups anyway i.e. VY, Brown, Harris, Lee, Higgins, Smith, Mathis etc.

                        The important FA signings, Jenkins, Babin & Nnamdi, they have control over beyond next year.

                        Furthermore, if some of those FA do leave after 1 year the Eagles will be in line for compensatory picks depending on who else they sign next off-season. So they have been aggressive, but the notion everything rides on this year alone is off-base IMO.
                        Eliminate distractions, create energy, fear nothing, and attack everything.

                        -Andy Reid

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Perhaps it's my personal bias but to me talent is easy to superficially spot but really hard to nail down when it's undeveloped.

                          Sure, howie can make suggestions. But I don't want howie with anything more decision making than the lunch lady Jukin mentioned.

                          I don't know what you guys do for a living. I assume you guys don't dance. Even with 20 years experience working all the aspects of the ballet, would you trust yourselves to be able to pick out ballet talent and hire a few raw dancers?

                          Originally posted by FairOaks View Post
                          Frankly I've kinda liked the last 2-3 drafts... some duds, but they accumulated enough picks that they have gotten more than the usual complement of keepable players. Now, identifying and drafting *stars* -- that remains to be seen.
                          I want Howie to wheel and deal and get us moving up the draft board, turning 1 2 into 4 3s. That's what I want. I also want him to hire the best scouts money can buy. But I don't want his and Banner's hands on actually choosing players.
                          Last edited by sfphillyfan; 08-23-2011, 12:19 PM.

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                          • #28
                            With 20 years of experience, absolutely I should be able to have learned enough to evaluate talent and select dancers....IF I was given that opportunity and took advantage of it and therein lies the difference IMO....alot of employers only see their people as doing job X and thus their people only see themselves that way too...people will normally only rise to the expectations set for them; if there is no expectation beyond job X and the organization actually discourages learning/growth then the employee will either stay, doing only what is neceessary to get by or leave for better options.

                            Organizations that encourage and reward learning and skill development do not see their employees pidgeon-holed into a certain job or skill set and employees who work in those organizations see that and find ways to learn & develop more skills in other areas of the business...those organizations create an environment of growth and the people who take advantage of that flourish and usually move onto creating their own organizations down the road...

                            Castillo came from the defensive side, was positioned on the OL, took advantage of the opportunity & excelled while continuing to discuss with Reid his desire to get back to the defensive side if the possibility arose....it finally did and he got his chance. Now he has to prove he can excel again in a role he has never done, but if anyone can do it its Castillo. Reid knows/trusts him and will work hard to make it successful.

                            The overall point is smart, hard working & talented people can learn to do anything IF give the opportunity and they take full advantage of that opportunity.
                            Eliminate distractions, create energy, fear nothing, and attack everything.

                            -Andy Reid

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Vote for Kalas View Post
                              With 20 years of experience, absolutely I should be able to have learned enough to evaluate talent and select dancers....IF I was given that opportunity and took advantage of it and therein lies the difference IMO....alot of employers only see their people as doing job X and thus their people only see themselves that way too...people will normally only rise to the expectations set for them; if there is no expectation beyond job X and the organization actually discourages learning/growth then the employee will either stay, doing only what is neceessary to get by or leave for better options.

                              Organizations that encourage and reward learning and skill development do not see their employees pidgeon-holed into a certain job or skill set and employees who work in those organizations see that and find ways to learn & develop more skills in other areas of the business...those organizations create an environment of growth and the people who take advantage of that flourish and usually move onto creating their own organizations down the road...

                              Castillo came from the defensive side, was positioned on the OL, took advantage of the opportunity & excelled while continuing to discuss with Reid his desire to get back to the defensive side if the possibility arose....it finally did and he got his chance. Now he has to prove he can excel again in a role he has never done, but if anyone can do it its Castillo. Reid knows/trusts him and will work hard to make it successful.

                              The overall point is smart, hard working & talented people can learn to do anything IF give the opportunity and they take full advantage of that opportunity.

                              I just don't think Castillo is that smart or talented. He's one of those "try harder" intensity guys, IMO. Reminds me a little of Bill Barber coaching the Flyers. I'd rather have the smart guy than the intense guy. The intense guys can coach special teams.
                              Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

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                              • #30
                                I would disagree...Castillo came from nothing and has made himself into a definite something. None of that is achieved without a combination of smarts, talent and hard work. One example of his smarts is joining and then staying in the Eagles organization for as long as he has...he knew this was the right place for his talents, they respected how he worked and his teaching abilities and he knew if he kept doing a good job he would be rewarded which he has...he knew if he kept proving himself to Reid that eventually he would get his opportunity and he has....now he has to again prove he is worthy of their trust and I bet he will...
                                Eliminate distractions, create energy, fear nothing, and attack everything.

                                -Andy Reid

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