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Old 12-05-2017, 08:04 PM   #11
NoDakIggle 
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No problem MD --there is something to be said for picking and choosing. Everyone should get to pick between good and bad but politicians are held by the balls by their party (both sides). This bill has some real good things IMM but no bill driven by one side with no hearings and no participation can be the best thing for the country--hell think Obamacare from the other side. Hell I heard it said by many Republicans that they can not go into the next election cycle without passing some piece of legislation. Nothing else is available so they HAD TO pass a tax bill. Doesn't matter if it is good or bad we just have to pass it is the mindset.
To be honest I am just about convinced we should have a flat tax. Don't care about your property tax deduction, don't care about your school load deduction, don't care about your yacht expenses or your medical bills and damn sure don't care about your real estate investment losses. Everyone pays X percent on gross income. You lose on your investment and don't have income you don't pay tax; if you make a buck you pay tax on a buck.
There may be lots of things to agree with or disagree with-- for example you say cap gains reduction is good. Myself I am glad they kept estate taxes in there even though they raised the amount you could discount. I also wonder about all the promises. First I am not sure the economy isn't growing; stock market is soaring, unemployment is already low. If that is the case who is going to fill all these great jobs that are going to be created. What is the point of being in business--make money. What evidence is there that all these great funds will be put back into the company as opposed to going to the business owner's pockets. Pretty sure that argument goes both ways.
I guess I look askew at some of the arguments for tax reform although I believe we need some tax overhaul. Whatever, it is another area that can be discussed for hours on end and deserves MUCH more effort than it is being given
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Old 12-20-2017, 02:44 PM   #12
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The tax plan sounds pretty darned good to me and I'm sure that all of these people who are against it now will love it once they see the bump in their paychecks. Some companies have already announced bonuses, raises, hirings and investing in their own companies. As long as they don't buy back their own stock this should stimulate things. Meanwhile Nancy Pelosi just came on tv saying that the country is now destroyed and this is the death to America. Politics as usual. She's starting to look like Jerry Jones.
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Old 12-20-2017, 03:14 PM   #13
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Well it is politics as usual 60. There is a lot good about the tax bill although I don't think all people will be falling all over themselves once they see a bump in their paychecks. Some will but not all. I don't think they rid us of all he loop holes. If you didn't have a lobby you lost most of your deductions but those with a lobby kept their loop holes. My single son for example is self employed in NYC. He lost $28,900 in itemized deductions whereas I will probably do better. I haven't checked but I think I will.
Personally I hoped they would cut the seven brackets to four and simplify the tax code --- not down to a post card as they said they would but better than it is. Of course those didn't happen.
Of course they will role out a few telling they will give bonuses and raises but let's wait to see. Much like the bring jobs back the day after the inauguration the party will role out an example or two but a month later the jobs were lost.
Don't listen to Nancy Pelosi. Actually you should do me a favor and move to CA and vote her out of office.
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Old 12-20-2017, 05:20 PM   #14
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Simple tax calculator--- Does favor people with kids, overall I think most will see a cut in the actual $$$$ paid to the Feds.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/th...owe-2017-10-26
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Old 12-20-2017, 07:01 PM   #15
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I'll be honest in that I don't know how true this

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/co...him-2017-12-18

is but I clicked on your marketwatch link and there was a link to this story. See this is whatI HATE about the two parties. Doesn't matter if it is Portman in OH getting a deal into the law or Murkowski from Alaska getting drilling into the law or Rubio holding out for something or Corker or whoever. Doesn't matter if it is Dem or Republican. Why do the tax rates change in ten years for some and not for others? Could it be that there will be a new President? Don't know but I know bad news is always pushed out to the next administration. Anyway, any bill that is strictly written by and voted for by one party probably isn't the best bill for the country. Think affordable care act (Obamacare).
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Old 12-20-2017, 07:24 PM   #16
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When one of the Republican Senators was on today and said that a family of 4 making 75K got a 3K break that sounded great to me! When people get their withholding taxes changed in February I guess the rubber will meet the road. I know that AT&T is giving everybody a 1K bonus and investing $1billion into their company. That's a lot of business created!! As far as the trickle down part I don't know how sold I am on that. I do know that if you give more money to people that don't have much they are going to spend it and that's the whole idea! Joe Kernan on Squawk Box was complaining that his taxes are going up and I'm thinking that if they are he must be making a shitload of money so I don't feel too bad for him. I guess the smaller $millionaires are taking a hit.


And ND, I totally agree with your post. As always a lot of us are left in the dark and apparently some people who voted for it were too.
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Old 12-20-2017, 07:39 PM   #17
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I will say One thing. The argument that it adds $1.5 trillion to the deficit is laughable. First, the scoring doesn’t use dynamic scoring which is crazy to me. But bigger than that to me are the crocodile tears being shed by Democrats. Deficits didn’t seem to matter during PBO term but apparently they do now. I just don’t get that at all.
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Old 12-20-2017, 07:47 PM   #18
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It is not perfect!

It is a major change to move the country forward, IMM. The corporate tax rate is the biggest factor, it brings the US back in line with the rest of the world. That I and by itself will move the economy forward, thus making the whole country benefit.

Certainly better than doing nothing, which we lived through for the last decade or so. Again, the big picture to me is more important than the individual couple of dolla s one way or the other.
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Old 12-21-2017, 07:27 AM   #19
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I agree we needed tax reform and this may be better than nothing. Doom and gloom on one side and peaches and cream on the other. Only time will tell results. I guess I would have to say I am cautiously optimistic. Although I would say doing nothing for the last decade sounds very political to me. What was the stock market at in Nov when Obama was elected and what was it in Nov when Trump was elected. Depending on what date or month you use the market went up anywhere from 8,000 to 10,000 points. What was unemployment in Nov then v Nov now. Don't know but I would guess it went down 6% to 8%.
Not saying last year hasn't been historic but to say doing nothing is FOX news rather than telling the whole story.
As for the deficit aw you are right. The administration spends without care. Congress is supposed to be the one holding the line and they haven't. Party doesn't matter. This country hasn't spent within its means for a long, long time.
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Old 12-21-2017, 10:26 AM   #20
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Doing nothing meant no tax relief-- just more spending! Look at #'s? ok, what was the National Debt when Obama took office, and what was it the day he left?

In the 8 years of Obama, the National debt increase was almost more than the national debt incurred by the previous 43 administrations----- COMBINED! He took office with the National Debt at 10.6 Trillion January 20 2009, he left Jan 20 2017 it was 19.9 Trillion. Of course there were many reasons, trade deficit being one of them because of his trade deals, our tax rate almost forcing major companies to move elsewhere, small business drying up due to regulation. Giving away BILLIONS to Iran and North Korea and other countries that are not friends of ours. All leading to a piss poor GDP at best ever hitting 1.8. That is NO Growth, that is Spending more than you have, that is NOT helping your citizens first.

And in all that time and the 9 trillion spent --- none was given back to the people. And this country sank very low in the world standard because we tried to be "Globalists".

IMM, that is doing nothing.

Last edited by MDFAN; 12-21-2017 at 02:27 PM..
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