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Pleasantly surprised by this offseason

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  • #31
    Originally posted by MDFAN View Post
    Whoa.... Never said, implied or wanted anybody to stop posting anything!

    I just happened to disagree with a couple of posters, and expressed that disagreement. I do appreciate the "common sense and logic" as that obviously is a very true and reasonable assessme.

    Look, This was a 7 and 9 team, that played like a 5 and 11 team. So far ,JIMHO, all they have done was get rid of salary and talent, and so far maybe they are now an 8 and 8 team, and IMHO they still need to do more to "plesantly surprise" me.

    What they have done so far, they should have done(if they wanted to purge the Chip era) not gone above it.
    I think you are going a little far to the other say by saying all they did was get rid of talent. They certainly brought talent back in. All you need to do is look at the tape on guys like Brooks, McCleod, Bradham etc. They all have talent. They might not have the name of DeMarco Murray but then again his name is worth about 13 spots on the 2nd day of the draft.

    Does this translate into anything more than a 7-9 team probably not. There is talent here, how they adapt and adjust to the new schemes will be the key to how much better or how much worse they will be.
    Were from Philly F in Philly no one likes us we DON'T CARE!

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    • #32
      all I can go by is the eyeball test. Of which both Murray and Alonso failed last year. They have the name power, but their production certainly looks easily replaceable.

      so far I like all the moves.

      But in the back of my head, none of it takes away from my concern that Bradford (or even Daniel for that matter) can be winning QB's. Nor will it take away my concern that Pederson was just a familiar face and not really the leader that is ready to be a head coach.

      I was in the minority that Chip the head coach could have eventually made this team championship caliber. I hear the "we were 7-9 and could have been 5-10" But I can easily counter that with "we could have easily been 10-6 and won the division. All with subpar talent that just was not yet at the level needed.

      anywho.....I hope this whole rah rah-kumbaya, players coach thing works. Cuz it does look promising from a personnel standpoint. As well as finally having a solid D Coordinator

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      • #33
        Guess we are talking semantics then--- I expected them to make these moves (most of them anyhow) so I'm not surprised by it. If you are going to get rid of these guys, you should be replacing them (we can argue talent level differences) but if you make X moves you better do Y moves in exchange.

        Surprises would have been like not resigning Sammy, going after RG3 ETC.... IMM anyhow.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by MDFAN View Post
          Guess we are talking semantics then--- I expected them to make these moves (most of them anyhow) so I'm not surprised by it. If you are going to get rid of these guys, you should be replacing them (we can argue talent level differences) but if you make X moves you better do Y moves in exchange.

          Surprises would have been like not resigning Sammy, going after RG3 ETC.... IMM anyhow.
          I guess I am saying they are making y moves. They trade Maxwell and sign McKelvin and Brooks, they trade Alonso and sign Bradham, they then upgraded guard and signed a safety in McCleod that should be every bid as good as Thurman (Who is reporting retiring) is. They have not upgraded RB yet but they have 9 draft picks yet to come. RB is one position you can certainly plug and play from the draft.

          It should be a surprise that they found teams to take guys like Maxwell, Murray and Alonso based on their performance last year as well as their bloated contracts.
          Were from Philly F in Philly no one likes us we DON'T CARE!

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          • #35
            Originally posted by MDFAN View Post
            Really? Sorry but we have different perspectives I guess.

            All I have seen is us dumping salary (and that may be a good thing) but it doesn't make us better.

            IMO, Murray is/was a talent, misused and mishandled, and we have not replaced THAT talent.

            Alonso was young.

            While this may turn out to be a nice off season, it isn't so talent wise yet. This team is not, on the field , any better yet.

            JIMHO, I'll judge this off season when I see the finished talent level.

            But so far, Meh!
            First, I think you're over-rating Murray. We'll see what happens with him in Tenn. I think the guy parlayed a great season by his offensive line into people thinking he was better than he is. We'll see.

            Outside of that, I think they have done a nicer job than you do. First off, Brandon Brooks is a huge upgrade, and an immediate starter on the weakest link on the team. That's adding talent. McKelvin will take over for Maxwell, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he out performs him. Same with Nigel Bradham and Alonso. Alonso might be young, but he's an inside 3-4 LBer. Bradham is a natural SAM in the 4-3, who played well under Schwartz, so they know what they are getting. That is an upgrade IMO. McCloud was rated in the top 10 for safeties last year by profootball focus. At the mininum, he's a wash with Thurmond, but that could be an upgrade too.

            Of course, the truth is always in the pudding. But Meh? I think they've done a lot better than that.

            And, then there's this, from PE.com.. The three former Bills wanted to be part of the scheme that enabled them to finish the 2014 regular season as the No. 4 defense in the league. They wanted to reunite with defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz.

            Under Schwartz that season, those players all had career years. Bradham finished second on the team with 100 tackles, Brooks notched a career high in tackles and McKelvin came up with four interceptions. Statistically, they all excelled and that’s what each player is hoping to get back to in 2016.

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            • #36
              I never expected to get away from Maxwell's contract. I expected Murray to be released if all the talk of him being unhappy in Philly were true. Alonso was a meh for me. Keep him, trade him, I just didn't see where he was any longer all that good. Will the new additions work out? Hard to believe they can perform worse than our last off season additions. Let's give Pederson and his staff a chance to do its job. I like the moves, but want a lot more than the FA Champs title.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Eaglebreath View Post
                First, I think you're over-rating Murray. We'll see what happens with him in Tenn. I think the guy parlayed a great season by his offensive line into people thinking he was better than he is. We'll see.

                Outside of that, I think they have done a nicer job than you do. First off, Brandon Brooks is a huge upgrade, and an immediate starter on the weakest link on the team. That's adding talent. McKelvin will take over for Maxwell, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if he out performs him. Same with Nigel Bradham and Alonso. Alonso might be young, but he's an inside 3-4 LBer. Bradham is a natural SAM in the 4-3, who played well under Schwartz, so they know what they are getting. That is an upgrade IMO. McCloud was rated in the top 10 for safeties last year by profootball focus. At the mininum, he's a wash with Thurmond, but that could be an upgrade too.



                Of course, the truth is always in the pudding. But Meh? I think they've done a lot better than that.

                And, then there's this, from PE.com.. The three former Bills wanted to be part of the scheme that enabled them to finish the 2014 regular season as the No. 4 defense in the league. They wanted to reunite with defensive coordinator Jim Schwartz.

                Under Schwartz that season, those players all had career years. Bradham finished second on the team with 100 tackles, Brooks notched a career high in tackles and McKelvin came up with four interceptions. Statistically, they all excelled and that’s what each player is hoping to get back to in 2016.
                EB, not arguing with you but we obviously have a different view of what would pleasantly surprise us.

                We obviously disagree on Muarry, IMO, he is only 28, had a year off last year, and was totally misused and miscast, and he didn't have just 1 good year in Dallas. As for the guys that played their best for Shultz that;s great, just like it was for all those guys that played their best for Chip in college.

                My viewpoint is that they decided to get rid of salary and chips guys, and that's fine--- but by doing that they created more holes and they filled them --- that is what I would "expect".

                They didn't get megatron to come out of retirement, they did get much value back, IMO, when they got rid of the salaries, they didn't buy a glue factory so that they could coach their WR's to hold on to a F'ing ball, they may have improved a terrible O-line from a F to a C, maybe. This team, so far, IMM has not improved much from the 7 and 9 team they were last year, IMM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by MDFAN View Post
                  EB, not arguing with you but we obviously have a different view of what would pleasantly surprise us.

                  We obviously disagree on Muarry, IMO, he is only 28, had a year off last year, and was totally misused and miscast, and he didn't have just 1 good year in Dallas. As for the guys that played their best for Shultz that;s great, just like it was for all those guys that played their best for Chip in college.

                  My viewpoint is that they decided to get rid of salary and chips guys, and that's fine--- but by doing that they created more holes and they filled them --- that is what I would "expect".

                  They didn't get megatron to come out of retirement, they did get much value back, IMO, when they got rid of the salaries, they didn't buy a glue factory so that they could coach their WR's to hold on to a F'ing ball, they may have improved a terrible O-line from a F to a C, maybe. This team, so far, IMM has not improved much from the 7 and 9 team they were last year, IMM.
                  Fair enough.

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                  • #39
                    Im still trying to figure out what holes they created? They traded Alonzo and replaced him with Bradham, They traded Maxwell and replaced him with Carroll (who was better than he was last year), McKelvin and Brooks. They traded Murray and while they have yet to replace him they were in deep doo doo cap wise with running backs. Once again Ryan Mathews was better than Murray last year.
                    They filled a huge hole at RG, They filled a hole at Safety that was created by Thurmon who is reported to have retired.

                    So what holes have they created? They had many holes on this team, they still do have holes but its a little more draft manageable now.
                    Were from Philly F in Philly no one likes us we DON'T CARE!

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by taz View Post
                      Im still trying to figure out what holes they created? They traded Alonzo and replaced him with Bradham, They traded Maxwell and replaced him with Carroll (who was better than he was last year), McKelvin and Brooks. They traded Murray and while they have yet to replace him they were in deep doo doo cap wise with running backs. Once again Ryan Mathews was better than Murray last year.
                      They filled a huge hole at RG, They filled a hole at Safety that was created by Thurmon who is reported to have retired.

                      So what holes have they created? They had many holes on this team, they still do have holes but its a little more draft manageable now.
                      If we get the same Carroll that we had last year that will be huge as far as the secondary goes. Unfortunately I don't think we will. He came into camp in the best shape of his life last year. This year he'll come in gimpy. Keep your fingers crossed.
                      "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Eagle60 View Post
                        If we get the same Carroll that we had last year that will be huge as far as the secondary goes. Unfortunately I don't think we will. He came into camp in the best shape of his life last year. This year he'll come in gimpy. Keep your fingers crossed.
                        Fair enough on Carroll. However it was a broken bone they heal. I for one think we are in much better shape at the defensive back position than we have been in some time. While we lack a true shut down corner I think we have some ascending corners and some vets.

                        I really liked what I saw from Rowe when he took over for Carroll much better than he was earlier in the year. I liked the way Watkins played the last two games after Maxwell went out, Sheppard, Rice and Evans are three young guys who could be. Now add in Carroll, McKelvin and Brooks and we have some numbers to choose from.

                        I am still would not be surprised if Veron Hargraves or Jalen Ramsey's name is called at pick 8 for us in the draft.
                        Were from Philly F in Philly no one likes us we DON'T CARE!

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by taz View Post
                          Fair enough on Carroll. However it was a broken bone they heal. I for one think we are in much better shape at the defensive back position than we have been in some time. While we lack a true shut down corner I think we have some ascending corners and some vets.

                          I really liked what I saw from Rowe when he took over for Carroll much better than he was earlier in the year. I liked the way Watkins played the last two games after Maxwell went out, Sheppard, Rice and Evans are three young guys who could be. Now add in Carroll, McKelvin and Brooks and we have some numbers to choose from.

                          I am still would not be surprised if Veron Hargraves or Jalen Ramsey's name is called at pick 8 for us in the draft.
                          I like our secondary too. I really don't know why because we got torched almost every game. I guess we can put most of that on our useless LBs. That's where we really need improvement this season.
                          "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

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                          • #43
                            I think that many of us are banking on the change in our defenseive coach is what will provide the biggest boost this season. Not so much the change in players.
                            http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by FRESH View Post
                              I think that many of us are banking on the change in our defenseive coach is what will provide the biggest boost this season. Not so much the change in players.
                              That seems to be the thinking these days. I know that he Didn't have any discipline as a HC. Doug is pretty easy going too. We'll see.
                              "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by taz View Post
                                Im still trying to figure out what holes they created? They traded Alonzo and replaced him with Bradham, They traded Maxwell and replaced him with Carroll (who was better than he was last year), McKelvin and Brooks. They traded Murray and while they have yet to replace him they were in deep doo doo cap wise with running backs. Once again Ryan Mathews was better than Murray last year.
                                They filled a huge hole at RG, They filled a hole at Safety that was created by Thurmon who is reported to have retired.

                                So what holes have they created? They had many holes on this team, they still do have holes but its a little more draft manageable now.
                                C'mon Taz, they already had Carroll. You act like Bradham, Mckelvin and Brooks(although he is an upgrade) are HOF's, they are replacements.

                                What I said about holes was that they created them when they made those moves---- and they made moves to fill them. It's what I would EXPECT --- not anything over and above my expectations.

                                And maybe our biggest difference is Murray. Matthews was better last year---- he was used better, properly and he didn't have a full season injury. Murray is only 28, wasn't used properly AT ALL, so he basically had a year off, and, oh yeah, he ran behind perhaps the worst O line in the conference. That offense was NOT designed to help Murray at all--- it was a mistake to bring him here unless they were going to use him properly. Yes Matthews was better ---- LAST YEAR--- Sproles is getting up there and Matthews is a walking poster boy for injury--- so that hole IMO has been created.

                                So IMM all in all -- they did create some holes, fill some holes, still left one hanging (RB) and the O-line still needs more help. And they may get that help and a RB in the draft---- that remains to be seen but what they have done so far--- has not raised this team above maybe 8 and 8 yet---- and that is what would needed to "pleasantly surprise" me.

                                IMM, all they have done is MET expectations not exceeded them.

                                PS-- These WR's still can't seem to catch a F'ing football yet--- yet that was NOT addressed. Just say'n, we gonna just hope that it is just miraculously change?

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