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Vick should get a 2nd chance!

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Leonard Tose View Post
    Now here's what I'm talking about. People get crazy over dogs. It's the strangest thing. Vick should spend more than 10 years in prison? Over dogs? Are you kidding me?

    Inhumane things are done to animals every day in this country. Factory farming of chickens and cows and pigs is some of the cruelest stuff you can imagine. Nobody's going to prison there. Nobody cares about the welfare of these animals.

    But mistreat a few dogs, geez, don't even think about it. Throw the book at him!
    I wasn't talking about Vick when I said 5 or 10 years in prison. I am talking about crime in general. If you spend an amount of time you have paid the price. Myself, I think you have done your sentence but you haven't necessarily paid your price. The victim of rape lives with it the rest of their lives while the perp has 'paid their debt' after serving their sentence. The family of someone killed lives with it the rest of their lives while the perp has paid the price after the sentence is over.
    If you read the entire post you will see that I say Vick has paid the price according to our society and should be allowed to apply for whatever job he wants.
    Wait until next year is a terrible philosophy
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    • #32
      PETA types, are the type of people who'd claim that they're vegetarian, but then say that tuna fish doesn't count as meat.........

      Who knows. If Vick and his friends had mutilated cats, had some of them kill each other, some journalists had pics of what was left of them, and Vick did this for 6 years? And man, that's a messed up idea....but who knows, I think that probably, yeah, the backlash would be just as bad. But no one in his right mind says that killing a dog is the same as killing a person.

      Sure there's a double standard about some animals, and how they die. Kevin Kolb's told stories about stabbing wild pigs while hunting, and no one's going to accuse him of animal abuse. Plenty of NFL players hunt, and if hunting was all that Vick did -- or heck, if Vick just worked on a freaking chicken farm part time instead -- no one outside of PETA would have cared.

      I agree, though, that it's insane that Leonard Little kills a woman while driving drunk, and gets a 90 day sentence, plus four years probation and about six months (1000 hours, figuring 8 hours a day) community service. Seems like he should've gotten more jail time out of that for taking someone's life, accident or not.

      Vick, on the other hand, commits crimes involving animal killing and torture over a six year period, along with gambling and drugs by the other people involved, he does this over state lines, and gets almost two years -- 23 months -- of jail time. Maybe Vick deserved more jail time, if only for the federal offenses involving drugs? Vick could've gotten five years, but he went for a plea bargain [sources on Little and Vick: wikipedia sites].

      But, whatever. It's America, he'll get his second chance. It only takes one owner, after all. If owners in the NFL give second chances to guys like Pacman Jones and Leonard Little, and if Michael Irvin could commit felony assault but never even get charged (the day he stabbed Everett McIver and almost killed him), well, anything's possible. If Vick were a 3rd string backup, maybe he wouldn't have even gotten that plea deal.
      Last edited by balto-eaglefan; 05-22-2009, 09:17 AM.
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      • #33
        Originally posted by L-Money View Post
        You said it yourself. You said he can work anywhere else. Why not the NFL? Because they pay in millions? No one would care if he worked someplace making minimum wage. Why is the NFL different? If an employer wants to hire him then it's their choice.
        qft

        Originally posted by NoDakIggle` View Post
        Now, there is something to be said about players being role models for kids but I think that may say more about the parents than the players.
        Yup, I subscribe to the Charles Barkley philosophy that parents should be role models, not athletes. Athletes are entertainers not role models. Parents, teachers, coaches, etc. should be the role models.

        Originally posted by MDFAN View Post
        Nobody said he should be in jail for 10 years, but he shouldn't have the ability to earn millions either --- IMO.

        My hope is that Goddell has the guts to at least suspend him for another year, if not, I hope the public wreaks havoc with any team that signs him.
        I didn't realize we were living in communist Russia. I've always thought Vick was a crappy QB, but he should be allowed to APPLY to any job he wants as long it doesn't involve working with animals.

        Originally posted by sfphillyfan View Post
        Again, I ask: if you were in Vick's shoes, i.e. you made a mistake and lost your job, your freedom for 2 years, would you not think you deserve/want another chance? Vick is not a good guy but he's not the devil either. Vick was sentenced per federal guidelines. You have a problem with it, bring it up with the Supreme Court.

        What Vick did was wrong, but it's not like he went on a shooting spree and killed 20 people.

        If you want to protest someone, protest Leonard Little. Not only did he kill someone during a DUI, he got arrested AGAIN after for DUI.

        By the way, I thought this was America? Where you can get a second chance and we live in a capitalist society where everyone can make as much money as they want/can if it's legal? The notion that Vick shouldn't be allowed to make money is ridiculous.

        As for PETA, they are a fucking worthless group and can all go eat a dick.
        qft, especially the PETA part
        Whatcha Gonna Do Brother, When the Eagles run wild on you?

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        • #34
          I said in another post that I don't want Vick on the Eagles but if he wants to play in the NFL I think he has the right to try. But some of you guys who compare him to Leonard Little are pointing to the wrong issue. First of all Little didn't intentionally kill someone - it was the result of a terrible decision to drive while drunk. Vick INTENTIONALLY killed and tortured animals for years. Obviously the loss of human life is much worse but I'm talking here about the INTENT. In Vick's case he wanted the result he got. Those angry about the length of Little's sentence should be calling for the sentencing Judge to be fired (and I would not only agree with that but I'll be the first to sign the petition!) Little should have been banned from the league - if not on the first case certainly after the second arrest! The fact that the NFL ignores this is scary. I really hope Goodell grows a set and starts telling players to leave and never come back in these cases.
          Last edited by Jukin; 05-22-2009, 07:04 AM.
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          • #35
            What makes the job of "football player" so special? THey are not allowed to be human? If Vick's former job was as a bus driver, and this all went down and he served his sentence, should he not be allowed to apply for a job as a bus driver again when he got out?

            IMO, he paid his debt, and now he has the same right as any one else to find a means of financialy supporting himself. He's not a ward of the state and no one is giving him 3 hots and a cot now. So he has no choice, and we should expect nothing less, then for him to go try to find a job in his chosen profession. He will face the same challenges any convict would in finding an employer, but he has te right to try. Lets just try to not place football players up on such a pedestal here, it's rediculous.
            http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

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            • #36
              LOL.

              1. Lets state for the record that yes in our society he has served his time and by law he should be free to apply for any job he wants to-- I agree. Doesn't mean he has paid his debt.

              2. Many many jobs will tell you up front and very clearly--- felons need not apply--- and it's perfectly legal, obviously the NFL isn't one of those employers. Hell, in most states many felons lose their right to vote, child molesters have to register and have their neighbors notified when they move in--- so it is not a given right that once you have served your time-- that you have paid your debt.

              3. This really isn't what we are discussing on a message board, the legality of it? It's more the opinions and the morals of it.

              4. There are certain crimes, that many many people feel are of such a nature that maybe the punishment doesn't fit the crime. They are entitled to their opinions. There are some crimes that are heinous enough to warrant continued penalties, IMO and many others. See child molesters or rapists or cop killers.

              5. It isn't about PETA or any other group-- it's about what a group of really sick people did to defenseless dogs(and no I don't even own any).

              6. It personally sickens me, obviously not some, that he should be able to use the talents that God gave to him to erase his free willed heinous actions and make more than a basic standard of living.

              Just my opinion.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Vet Turf View Post
                IMO he served his time and will forever have this baggage.

                As for playing in the NFL? It isn't a right and it should be a league decision as to whether they want that caliber of person (and the associated circus he will bring) in the league. He can work anywhere else that wants to hire him. Look, if you owned a company would you hire him? Some would and some won't. Me personally, I wouldn't.

                I hope the NFL tries to hold itself to a standard at some point and then be consistent no matter where they end up. I don't know the nuances of who is the official employer. So if ultimately an owner is the end employer not the league, then let the owner make that decision. If the league, make the decision and move on.
                The NFL is a monopoly so I don''t think he should be prohibited from playing. He is a football player and the NFL banning him would be prohibiting him from working in his trade with no alternative. I see each team as an individual entitity. He should be allowed to play and the teams should be allowed to sign him if they want. having said that, Vick is radioactive and I dont think anybody will touch him.

                Furthermore, I dont the NFL should judge which crimes are worse than others. Rape a woman (Jerramy Stevens- http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...tevens270.html)... OK to play! Kill and abuse dogs in a heinous act- can't play forever! Doesn't make sense to me.. Vick is scum and doesn't deserve (in my book) money, fame, etc.. However, how can the NFL decide who can play and who can;t without any clear guidelines? If Vick were banned from the NFL, I think he would have a legitimate court case. If he is allowed to play and blackballed by every team, he wouldn't have a case.
                Last edited by orangeeater; 05-22-2009, 11:13 AM.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by FRESH View Post
                  What makes the job of "football player" so special? THey are not allowed to be human? If Vick's former job was as a bus driver, and this all went down and he served his sentence, should he not be allowed to apply for a job as a bus driver again when he got out?

                  IMO, he paid his debt, and now he has the same right as any one else to find a means of financialy supporting himself. He's not a ward of the state and no one is giving him 3 hots and a cot now. So he has no choice, and we should expect nothing less, then for him to go try to find a job in his chosen profession. He will face the same challenges any convict would in finding an employer, but he has te right to try. Lets just try to not place football players up on such a pedestal here, it's rediculous.

                  To play devil's advocate here, Fresh, here's why he might not be allowed to ply his trade:

                  The NFL is an entertainment product catering to millions of fans. If there is a reasonable chance that those fans would turn off the product if Vick was hired, then the NFL doesn't have to hire him.

                  The analogy (which I made on my show last night) is the guy who got caught on To Catch a Predator. He worked for Nickelodeon. Now, obviously, these are two separate items but you could make an argument that the Nickelodeon guy served his time and should be allowed to go back to Nickelodeon to ply his trade. Clearly that wouldn't happen.

                  The NFL has an image to protect.

                  ** for those who can't read, I am merely pointing out to Fresh why the NFL might win the argument. I fully think that Vick should be allowed back.


                  The CLEAR difference here is that the NFL has always allowed ex-felons to come back to the league. They'd have to kick everyone out who has a rap sheet to make this stick.

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                  • #39
                    Again people confuse and muddle the legal side vs the moral side.

                    There is no debate--he has the legal right to apply for and take any job offered to him.

                    And the NFL does have a bit of a problem in that they have let felons back in the league. So picking and choosing could be a problem for them. They first need to establish a policy whereas they will not rehire nor continue to employ convicted felons.

                    But none of that has anything to do with the moral issues here.

                    Personally I don't think he should be banned but IMO another years suspension should be in order and then if he keeps his nose clean for that year and someone will hire him fine.

                    Just in my opinion.

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                    • #40
                      Based on the precedent set by many other suspensions throughout the league after a player has been involved with legal difficulties and, in Vick's case, that he lied to his owner and the commissioner to their faces, I think that he should be allowed to come back after a one or two year suspension from the league.
                      Let's go Birds

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                      • #41
                        MD, if you are simply looking at this from a moral standpoint MD, then I think the guy should be outed from decent society all together.
                        http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by FRESH View Post
                          MD, if you are simply looking at this from a moral standpoint MD, then I think the guy should be outed from decent society all together.

                          LOL, well there is no other argument to make-- the legal side isn't in question. It's not up for debate, the law is the law.

                          All that is debatable IS the moral ramifications and issues.

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                          • #43
                            Well, I don't know whether his possible suspension temporary or otherwise is a legal or moral decision. IMO, it's basically a business decision. However I am fully with you form a moral standpoint, the guy is a scumbag,.
                            http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by MDFAN View Post
                              Again people confuse and muddle the legal side vs the moral side.

                              There is no debate--he has the legal right to apply for and take any job offered to him.

                              And the NFL does have a bit of a problem in that they have let felons back in the league. So picking and choosing could be a problem for them. They first need to establish a policy whereas they will not rehire nor continue to employ convicted felons.

                              But none of that has anything to do with the moral issues here.

                              Personally I don't think he should be banned but IMO another years suspension should be in order and then if he keeps his nose clean for that year and someone will hire him fine.

                              Just in my opinion.

                              The morality of it is hardly an issue. Plenty of people with questionable morals play pro sports. Nobody cares too much about morals when winning is the only priority.

                              If anything, the only issue that would keep him from coming back is the gambling thing. Sports leagues get spooked when a player associates with gambling.
                              Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Leonard Tose View Post
                                The morality of it is hardly an issue. Plenty of people with questionable morals play pro sports. Nobody cares too much about morals when winning is the only priority.

                                If anything, the only issue that would keep him from coming back is the gambling thing. Sports leagues get spooked when a player associates with gambling.
                                Really? What is the legal issue?

                                All that this question was about was the moral issue --- "Should Vick get a 2nd chance?"---- Has nothing, 0, zero to do with any legal issue. Since we don't make NFL policy, the only thing we CAN comment on is the moral issue.

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