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  • Converting Vick

    I am a simple person. We saw McNabb evelove into a pocket passer and the lack of scrambling may have hurt his game. I know this can be argued, but Reid worked to convert McNabb from running to one that ran as a last resort.

    Is the same thing happending with Vick? He seems to be less inclined to run the ball and, I believe, as a result, is being injured more. OK, someone is going to tell me he hurt himself last year scrambling. But, this year, his injuries with that line are in the pocket. I have always wondered why a QB with his talents would be healthier being brought down by 300 lb lineman vs. a DB or smaller LB. It just seems counter productive to limit one of his biggest skills and plays into the hands of the D. If he is running, it forces the line to hold their rush a little and forces them to manage the line vs. what we are seeing. I don't know. Like I said, I am simple in my thoughts.

  • #2
    I don't think Reid converted McNabb into a pocket passer... to me McNabb simply got the shit kicked out of him as he was running all over the field for years. I just don't think he can move anymore because of this, and hence you have a pocket passer.

    Vick yesterday to me appeared to be protected more by the game plan. He looked very hesitant to run.

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    • #3
      Personally, I don't think Vick plays any different than he ever did. He's got better receivers here than the junk that he had in Atlanta, but that's about it. He's got better stats because his guys are better. This great "evolvement" thing is a myth by the media. I think that he's grown up more as a person, but his game is the same. And the more he runs around the better if you ask me. He's not built like a Sherman tank like McNabb is. I don't know how McNabb survived Reid, but I do know that Vick just won't be able to survive Reid's shit.
      "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

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      • #4
        Yesterday was the first I saw Vick hesitant to run. Due to his concussion. Too bad. He had some openings
        Sonny J

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        • #5
          I tend to agree with Eagle60. The evolvement of Vick is a myth sprung on us by the media. Vick has yet to show me he can be a pocket passer and be consistent enough for this team to contend for the Super Bowl. I said even at the end of last year I was unconvinced and still needed to see more and progression...so far, I don't like what I am seeing and wonder if the big contract was a big mistake.

          I do think Vick was suffering from some post concussion syndrome yesterday. He looked hesitant from the beginning...he was not his normal self...didn't have that killer instinct. Also, remember at the end of the first half when Celek and the Eagles practically had to push him to the sideline, and we almost missed a FG due to it? Either that was Mcnabbesque, or he was suffering concussion effects.

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          • #6
            I think Vick has evolved but, as I have said since day one, I don't think he is that good. He can take the team to the SB, as many QBs can, but teams got enough tape on him to be able to confuse him. Once his legs go he just isn't that good. I continue to believe Kolb was the one to keep.
            Wait until next year is a terrible philosophy
            Hope is not a strategy
            RIP

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            • #7
              Originally posted by NoDakIggle` View Post
              I think Vick has evolved but, as I have said since day one, I don't think he is that good. He can take the team to the SB, as many QBs can, but teams got enough tape on him to be able to confuse him. Once his legs go he just isn't that good. I continue to believe Kolb was the one to keep.
              Kolb would be dead by now ND. Reid needs Houdini types to play QB for him. Vick can certainly take a team to a SB if he stays healthy. Put him under center and let him do his thing.
              "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

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              • #8
                Reid absolutely pushed McNabb into staying in the pocket anbd not running. eis also doing the same with Vick. Not saying that staying in the pocket is a bad thing. The bad thing is trying to make a QB who isn't an anticipation thrower and relies on legs and seeing a wide open receiver into a pocket QB. Ansy & Co teach QBs-there is no doubt about that, but I think the QBs that he has put his money on are going to be limited in their ceiling by their style.
                Wait until next year is a terrible philosophy
                Hope is not a strategy
                RIP

                Comment


                • #9
                  No way....McNabb had his best years in this system and mostly operating from the pocket. Every QB goes through development and learning how to run the offense effectively from the pocket, a run-first QB has never won anything and only got close when they started to develop as a QB. To run the offense effectively, one must pass the ball, use their weapons, read defenses etc.

                  Randall did not get there until MN, McNabb transitioned in 2002-3, Vick did not get there until last season and many others have similar stories...the system and coaching a player gets is very important to their development or lack thereof...
                  Eliminate distractions, create energy, fear nothing, and attack everything.

                  -Andy Reid

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                  • #10
                    How many hits does Vick take when running off his back foot? Quarterbacks are supposed to find the open spot in the protection and step up into the pocket. Vick doesn't do that enough, and thus, takes huge hits. He's also 5-11, which make seeing over the line tough, and makes 3 step drops very difficult.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Eagle60 View Post
                      Personally, I don't think Vick plays any different than he ever did. He's got better receivers here than the junk that he had in Atlanta, but that's about it. He's got better stats because his guys are better. This great "evolvement" thing is a myth by the media. I think that he's grown up more as a person, but his game is the same. And the more he runs around the better if you ask me. He's not built like a Sherman tank like McNabb is. I don't know how McNabb survived Reid, but I do know that Vick just won't be able to survive Reid's shit.
                      Thank you. He had one good year. Vick is never going to be a Brady or Manning who can get the ball out quickly. So he is always going to take abuse no matter where he plays.

                      It's not a Reid thing though. If you noticed both Garcia and Feeley didn't get hit nearly as much as McNabb and Vick have.
                      FRESH > cancer

                      I hate everything the Cowboys stand for. If you think they are America's team, then you support everything that is wrong with America. The excess, the greed, the lack of maturity, the lack of responsibility, the lack of control. - Luzinski's Gut

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                      • #12
                        I disagree KK and the numbers do not lie...Vick had by far his best year here and did grow as a QB and start to transition from the run-first guy to a true pocket QB who ran the offense effectively, read defenses etc.

                        The one thing he still needs to improve on is what Marty said in TC: pocket awareness and pressure recognition. On some of the hits and sacks, he held the ball too long, did not throw it away or throw to his hot read quick enough. Like McNabb and Big Ben, Vick extends plays and tries to make something good happen. On some, it works well and the offense benefits. On others, it does not work and the offense is hurt.

                        The key is to get him to understand (and act accordingly) to reading what times to extend and what times to get rid of it. If he improves in this, we will be fine.
                        Eliminate distractions, create energy, fear nothing, and attack everything.

                        -Andy Reid

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Vote for Kalas View Post
                          I disagree KK and the numbers do not lie...Vick had by far his best year here and did grow as a QB and start to transition from the run-first guy to a true pocket QB who ran the offense effectively, read defenses etc.

                          The one thing he still needs to improve on is what Marty said in TC: pocket awareness and pressure recognition. On some of the hits and sacks, he held the ball too long, did not throw it away or throw to his hot read quick enough. Like McNabb and Big Ben, Vick extends plays and tries to make something good happen. On some, it works well and the offense benefits. On others, it does not work and the offense is hurt.

                          The key is to get him to understand (and act accordingly) to reading what times to extend and what times to get rid of it. If he improves in this, we will be fine.
                          Numbers don't lie but they don't tell the whole truth either. Look at DJ's game by game stats. That tells you how misleading stats can be. Vick has played one good year. Until we see a second it's a fluke. If he does it a second time I will tip my hat.
                          FRESH > cancer

                          I hate everything the Cowboys stand for. If you think they are America's team, then you support everything that is wrong with America. The excess, the greed, the lack of maturity, the lack of responsibility, the lack of control. - Luzinski's Gut

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I was responding more to KK's point that Vick has not progressed at all and its all been a myth spread by the media/team....thats flat out false as the numbers show and we all saw last season. Vick DID progress as a true pocket QB last season, he still has room to improve which is the goal of this season.
                            Eliminate distractions, create energy, fear nothing, and attack everything.

                            -Andy Reid

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Vote for Kalas View Post
                              I was responding more to KK's point that Vick has not progressed at all and its all been a myth spread by the media/team....thats flat out false as the numbers show and we all saw last season. Vick DID progress as a true pocket QB last season, he still has room to improve which is the goal of this season.
                              I think the numbers show that guys weren't dropping passes constantly last year like they did in Atlanta. How has his game changed? Look, I'm not knocking the guy. Let him scramble his ass off all he wants as long as it's effective. I don't want to see him stand in the pocket and get killed, he's not built for that like McNabb was.
                              "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

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