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Interesting take on the Eagles personnel group

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  • #31
    " Before you recommend to your team that you hand the kid millions. Thats why so many evaluators insist on meeting with the kids, their families, do background checks.....just some do a better job on that then others"

    And it is still nothing more than words.

    Feelings.

    Still no hard data.

    Nothing scientific about it.

    So all of those "what if" things are true and probably many many more of them.

    If anybody doesn't think that the draft is nothing more than a crapshoot then we can start a whole thread on 1st and 2nd round busts, for the last 40 years.

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    • #32
      MD, there HAS to be a way to evaluate the evaluators. There is a reason why some GMs and talant scouts are considered to be at the top of their profession. And there is only one way to grade them, as far as I can tell. And that is, the quality of their selections, particularly the big dollar ones.

      If all anybody thought the draft was is a crap shoot, they wouldn't have these people on their payroll to evaluate it. Why can you not see that?
      http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

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      • #33
        BTW - Nice to have a civil disagreement. I enjoy it.
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        • #34
          "MD, there HAS to be a way to evaluate the evaluators. There is a reason why some GMs and talant scouts are considered to be at the top of their profession."

          I agree and it's called the long haul.

          And Heckert is/was being highly sought after, so by your standards that must mean that he is at least ok. Like I said show me one thread that even questioned Heckerts ability before these last 4 of 5 games?


          and I'll say it again........

          1 Antone Davis (T), Tennessee, 8
          2 Jesse Campbell (S), North Carolina State, 49
          3 Rob Selby (G-T), Auburn, 76
          4 William Thomas (LB), Texas A&M, 105
          5 Craig Erickson (QB), Miami, 132
          6a Andy Harmon (DE), Kent State (choice obtained
          from Houston for Don McPherson), 157
          6b Own choice traded to Jets for Roger Vick
          7 James Joseph (RB), Auburn, 188
          8 Scott Kowalkowski (LB), Notre Dame, 217
          9 Chuck Weatherspoon (RB), Houston, 244
          10 Eric Harmon (G), Clemson, 273
          11 Mike Flores (DE), Louisville, 300
          12 Darrell Beavers (S-LB), Morehead State, 329

          1 Traded to Green Bay along with '91 first round
          pick in return for Green Bay's '91 first round pick.
          2 Siran Stacy (RB), Alabama, 48
          3 Tommy Jeter (DT), Texas 75
          4a Tony Brooks (RB), Notre Dame 92
          4b Casey Weldon (QB), Florida State 102
          5 Corey Barlow (CB), Auburn 129
          6 Jeff Sydner (WR/PR), Hawaii 170
          7 William Boatwright (G), Virginia Tech. 187
          8 Chuck Bullough (LB), Michigan St. 214
          9 Ephesians Bartley (LB), Florida 241
          10 Mark McMillian (CB), Alabama 272
          11 Pumpy Tudors (P), Tennessee-Chattanooga 299
          12 Brandon Houston (T), Oklahoma 326


          1a Lester Holmes (G), Jackson State, 19 (choice
          obtained from NFL as compensation for the departure
          of Reggie White. Then traded to Houston for
          their 1st pick plus their 3rd round selection)
          1b Leonard Renfro (DT), Colorado, 24
          2 Victor Bailey (WR), Missouri, 50
          3a Derrick Frazier (CB), Texas A&M, 75 (choice
          obtained from Houston)
          3b Mike Reid (S), North Carolina State, 77
          6 Derrick Oden (LB), Alabama, 163
          7 Joey Mickey (TE), Oklahoma, 190
          8 Doug Skene (T), Michigan, 217

          And people here were very un happy that the guy that made these picks was ousted.

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          • #35
            BTW-- my retorts here are mainly directed at the article in question that started this thread. IMO, once again the media just tries to stir the pot in order to increase revenue.

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            • #36
              So it's not a complete crap shoot, but you have to evaluate over the "long haul"? OK, I can live with that. As I have said, I am not asking for him to be fired. But I do think it's fair to judge him based upon the outcome of these top draft picks.

              In all honesty, he migt not be the right one to have under the microscope here. Who knows, but Reid may have made some of these selection himself, and even gone against his advisors. It's possible.
              http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

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              • #37
                Some recent comments by Ray Didinger:

                "Their drafting record is, pretty obviously, not very good," Didinger said. "You look at the drafts here, look at the players they've gotten, and it's pretty spotty. The two key guys on the defense, still, were drafted by Ray Rhodes. They have not helped themselves a whole lot in the draft.

                "They really don't get much out of their rookies, year in and year out. This year in particular they really needed to -- and they've given you nothing. I mean, don't tell me what Winston Justice is going to be in three years. They need help right now."


                And here's a comment from Brian Baldinger:

                "The Eagles are not an elite team now because they've drafted poorly. You look at their first-round picks -- Brodrick Bunkley, Jerome McDougle. They're busts. They haven't done enough to keep talent coming in. Good teams re-stock talent, so they always have somebody coming, somebody they're waiting for -- and the Eagles don't have that.
                Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by FRESH
                  So it's not a complete crap shoot, but you have to evaluate over the "long haul"? OK, I can live with that. As I have said, I am not asking for him to be fired. But I do think it's fair to judge him based upon the outcome of these top draft picks.
                  How is it fair to judge Heckert on these picks?

                  Bunkley has been in the league less than 1 YEAR...

                  Patterson less than 2 YEARS...

                  The common agreed upon timeframe to evaluate drafts is at least 3 years...

                  J-Mac is the only one he can be judged on right now IMO and that is not a slam dunk case despite the over-simplification and glossing over him being shot, injured etc. during his time here...he has been dissapointing for sure so far, but so have alot of good players who then turned it around...
                  Eliminate distractions, create energy, fear nothing, and attack everything.

                  -Andy Reid

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                  • #39
                    And that's why I'm not asking for him to be fired....yet.

                    The early returns pretty much suck.
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                    • #40
                      1 Antone Davis (T), Tennessee, 8 --bust
                      2 Jesse Campbell (S), North Carolina State, 49 --bust
                      3 Rob Selby (G-T), Auburn, 76 --bust
                      4 William Thomas (LB), Texas A&M, 105 ---turned out to be a steal
                      5 Craig Erickson (QB), Miami, 132 --stuck around for a few years
                      6a Andy Harmon (DE), Kent State (choice obtained ---Steal
                      from Houston for Don McPherson), 157
                      6b Own choice traded to Jets for Roger Vick
                      7 James Joseph (RB), Auburn, 188 --produced ok for a 7th rd pick
                      8 Scott Kowalkowski (LB), Notre Dame, 217 --played a couple years
                      9 Chuck Weatherspoon (RB), Houston, 244
                      10 Eric Harmon (G), Clemson, 273
                      11 Mike Flores (DE), Louisville, 300 --stuck around awhile,not a bad pick
                      12 Darrell Beavers (S-LB), Morehead State, 329

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Bad draft top to bottom.1 good player who was productive for any amount of time.

                        1 Traded to Green Bay along with '91 first round
                        pick in return for Green Bay's '91 first round pick.
                        2 Siran Stacy (RB), Alabama, 48
                        3 Tommy Jeter (DT), Texas 75
                        4a Tony Brooks (RB), Notre Dame 92
                        4b Casey Weldon (QB), Florida State 102
                        5 Corey Barlow (CB), Auburn 129
                        6 Jeff Sydner (WR/PR), Hawaii 170 ---haha we cut jimmy smith for this dude
                        7 William Boatwright (G), Virginia Tech. 187
                        8 Chuck Bullough (LB), Michigan St. 214
                        9 Ephesians Bartley (LB), Florida 241
                        10 Mark McMillian (CB), Alabama 272 ---for a 10th rd pick this was a good pick
                        11 Pumpy Tudors (P), Tennessee-Chattanooga 299
                        12 Brandon Houston (T), Oklahoma 326

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Leonard Tose
                          Some recent comments by Ray Didinger:

                          "Their drafting record is, pretty obviously, not very good," Didinger said. "You look at the drafts here, look at the players they've gotten, and it's pretty spotty. The two key guys on the defense, still, were drafted by Ray Rhodes. They have not helped themselves a whole lot in the draft.

                          "They really don't get much out of their rookies, year in and year out. This year in particular they really needed to -- and they've given you nothing. I mean, don't tell me what Winston Justice is going to be in three years. They need help right now."


                          And here's a comment from Brian Baldinger:

                          "The Eagles are not an elite team now because they've drafted poorly. You look at their first-round picks -- Brodrick Bunkley, Jerome McDougle. They're busts. They haven't done enough to keep talent coming in. Good teams re-stock talent, so they always have somebody coming, somebody they're waiting for -- and the Eagles don't have that.
                          C'mon man, they are both media! And where were their ground breaking stories about the Eagles poor drafts when the Eagles were winning? Even when they were 4 and 1 this year? Where were their scathing reports when they actually drafted these guys? Is there any negative news reports about Heckert since the day he got here -------- before now?

                          And for every report and quote you post I could find 3 to say what great drafts the Eagles had. Please.


                          And as soon as the Eagles win 3 games in a row and Patterson has a sack and/or Bunkley gets one -- the tune will change and they won't be saying a word.

                          The team is losing right now and everybody wants to blame somebody. That's all this is.

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                          • #43
                            Why would you serch for the answer to a problem until you see a problem? Only over teh ast year or so has the quality of the D front 7 becme an area of concern. That's why you see people bringing it up now.

                            I can promise you that if they were performing well, and we were not getting our butts kicked up front, there would be no articles like that. If that's your point, then BRAVO! But also....DUH!!!!
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                            • #44
                              Good thread.
                              I miss Philly!

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