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  • Doug on Wentz

    “I think as our relationship has grown and he getting to know me and me getting to know him, I think we can be hard on each other. I can be hard on him and he can be hard back on me.”

    Hey, I realize that I couldn't coach the new attitude of these guys because I'm an oldtimer, but this hit a nerve with me. I don't care how good a 4th year QB is you should not be giving lip to your coach and the coach shouldn't be accepting it. What the hell has Wentz done to feel that he has that right? I'm starting to get that Gordie Good Shit feeling about Doug again.
    "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

  • #2
    I agree 60 !

    Comment


    • #3
      A while back, I asked about whether the Eagles would be better off giving Wentz a hundred plus million dollar contract, or trading him and keeping Foles for the money he got in Jax, along with the draft picks they would have gotten for Wentz. A lot of people felt that was a ridiculous question.

      It doesn't seem so ridiculous now. I have a saying. If you are going to pay someone Aaron Rogers money, he better play like Aaron Rogers. Wentz got the big payday, but he's not playing at that level. In fact, there are only three guys out there, Aaron Rogers, Russel Wilson, and Drew Brees who are deserving of that kind of money. There are a bunch of other guys, Goff, Wentz, Stafford, Ryan, Cousins, etc. who are flat out overpaid, and it hurts their team.

      I don't know what Wentz's deal is. You can make excuses all you want, but the bottom line is they paid him Aaron Rogers money, and he is not playing at that level. If he doesn't get his shit together and start playing like the MVP candidate he was earlier on, his deal is going to hurt the Eagles.

      Comment


      • #4
        I think you all are taking it out of context. Dougs choice of wording didn't help. I think what Doug is saying its a two way street. Doug values his players input, thus he has the players leadership group etc. That is designed for Doug to get feedback. Same thing with the QB. So I am sure Carson is say, why should I throw the ball to Agholor he is just going to drop it

        EaglesBreath I think you need to go back and watch the games. Except for one or two games Carson is playing at a high level and has most of the year. The players around him are god terrible. There is a video that I tried to link but it wouldn't it depicted the 7 dropped TD passes in the 4th quarter by his wide receivers/Tight Ends that would have put them ahead or won games. What does Carson have to show for those perfect passes. Criticism. 27 tds to 7 int plus 4 more wins and the conversation is different.

        I will say it again Carson is far down the list of problems on this team.

        His contract is not going to hold this team back from adding. Howie might, Doug not developing players might. But Carsons contract won't
        Were from Philly F in Philly no one likes us we DON'T CARE!

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        • #5
          I still am happy with Carson as our QB because of his intangibles. But, he holds the ball too damn long and that won't ever change. He just does not have a quick release.

          Nick got the ball out a lot quicker. FitzMagic torched us by getting the ball out in about 2 seconds, which covered up for the horrible Miami D line.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by taz View Post
            I think you all are taking it out of context. Dougs choice of wording didn't help. I think what Doug is saying its a two way street. Doug values his players input, thus he has the players leadership group etc. That is designed for Doug to get feedback. Same thing with the QB. So I am sure Carson is say, why should I throw the ball to Agholor he is just going to drop it

            EaglesBreath I think you need to go back and watch the games. Except for one or two games Carson is playing at a high level and has most of the year. The players around him are god terrible. There is a video that I tried to link but it wouldn't it depicted the 7 dropped TD passes in the 4th quarter by his wide receivers/Tight Ends that would have put them ahead or won games. What does Carson have to show for those perfect passes. Criticism. 27 tds to 7 int plus 4 more wins and the conversation is different.

            I will say it again Carson is far down the list of problems on this team.

            His contract is not going to hold this team back from adding. Howie might, Doug not developing players might. But Carsons contract won't
            That's fair enough. But, Carson is not playing at an MVP level right now. Period. He's the 4th highest paid player in the league based on annual salary. He's not playing like it, drops or not. And, while he may be far down on the list of problems, the 4th highest paid dude in the league probably shouldn't be on the list of problems at all. I'll say it again, if you are going to pay someone that much money, he better earn it, or it hurts your team. Carson is not playing up to his contract right now.

            Comment


            • #7
              OMG--- some of you guys must be so starved for/or crave drama.

              This is a total nothing burger... please stop trying to be armchair psychiatrists!!!

              BTW--- thoyght the site was goiung to be fixed--- I iknow I still am having problems... Just me?????

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Eaglebreath View Post
                A while back, I asked about whether the Eagles would be better off giving Wentz a hundred plus million dollar contract, or trading him and keeping Foles for the money he got in Jax, along with the draft picks they would have gotten for Wentz. A lot of people felt that was a ridiculous question.

                It doesn't seem so ridiculous now. I have a saying. If you are going to pay someone Aaron Rogers money, he better play like Aaron Rogers. Wentz got the big payday, but he's not playing at that level. In fact, there are only three guys out there, Aaron Rogers, Russel Wilson, and Drew Brees who are deserving of that kind of money. There are a bunch of other guys, Goff, Wentz, Stafford, Ryan, Cousins, etc. who are flat out overpaid, and it hurts their team.

                I don't know what Wentz's deal is. You can make excuses all you want, but the bottom line is they paid him Aaron Rogers money, and he is not playing at that level. If he doesn't get his shit together and start playing like the MVP candidate he was earlier on, his deal is going to hurt the Eagles.
                I'm not sorry that we gave him that contract at all EB. All of those guys that you mentioned are fanchise guys too. That's the going price and I want no part of QB hell again. You know how these contracts go up every year for QBs. It's all part of the game.
                "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Eagle60 View Post
                  I'm not sorry that we gave him that contract at all EB. All of those guys that you mentioned are fanchise guys too. That's the going price and I want no part of QB hell again. You know how these contracts go up every year for QBs. It's all part of the game.
                  The guys that are earning their money aren't an issue. It's guys that get the huge deals and don't earn it that are the problem. Because the team has less money to spend elsewhere, which can lead to problems.

                  I don't have a problem with the Eagles paying Wentz. I have a problem with Wentz not playing up to his contract. I know the contracts go up and up, but the dude is one of the highest paid QBs in the NFL. He's one of the highest paid players in the NFL. He's simply not playing at that level.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Agree that I wouldn't go overboard based on this story. I previously noted some concern about Doug being buddies with guys instead of being the company man. He needs to find that role.
                    And yes I still have some problems with the site
                    Wait until next year is a terrible philosophy
                    Hope is not a strategy
                    RIP

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I'm not the only guy that Gordy is too easy on Wentz


                      Eagles QB Carson Wentz needs tough love right now, and he’s not getting it from coaching staff

                      by Paul Domowitch, Updated: December 8, 2019- 5:00 AM




                      In the days following the Eagles’ Super Bowl victory over the Patriots two years ago, Doug Pederson suffered two major setbacks.
                      First he lost his quarterback whisperer, John DeFilippo, who took the offensive coordinator’s job in Minnesota. Then, his own offensive coordinator, Frank Reich, accepted the Indianapolis Colts’ head coaching job.


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                      Rather than go outside for replacements, Pederson promoted from within, moving his wide receivers coach, Mike Groh, into Reich’s job, and bumping up 30-year-old Press Taylor, who had been DeFilippo’s assistant, to quarterbacks coach.
                      In a disappointing season in which the Eagles’ offense has struggled and its young quarterback, Carson Wentz, has regressed, those two moves are coming under scrutiny, both inside and outside of the NovaCare Complex.


                      Wentz, who probably would have been the league MVP in 2017 if he hadn’t torn his ACL late in the season, is 18th in the league in passing (90.0), 17th in touchdown percentage, 24th in completion percentage (62.4) and 30th in yards per attempt (6.5).
                      His nine fumbles are tied for the seventh most in the league, and his five lost fumbles are tied for the fourth most.


                      These are not the kind of numbers you expect or want from a quarterback you’ve just given a $128-million contract extension to.
                      Wentz has been hamstrung by an underperforming wide receiver group that has just one guy – Nelson Agholor – capable of getting open on his own. And that’s negated by Agholor’s suspect hands and inability to track deep balls. He’s averaged a puny 24.3 receiving yards per game since Week 4 and has caught just three of 14 targets of 20 yards or more.


                      “They have to scheme to get guys open,’’ said a coach for an NFC team that has played the Eagles this season. “Zach Ertz is the only guy other than Agholor who can get open on his own.
                      “The rest of them are like basketball players who can’t get their own shot. They’re a bunch of possession guys. They don’t have a guy who can create in a one-on-one situation, and that’s a big problem for them.’’
                      They have Alshon Jeffery, who has made a pretty good living catching 50/50 balls from quarterbacks in his career. The problem is, Wentz doesn’t like throwing 50/50 balls. He prefers to rely on his arm rather than put balls up for grabs and have to rely on a receiver to make a contested catch, which is unfortunate considering that the strength of two of the four wideouts on the Eagles’ roster is making contested catches.
                      The Eagles have bet both the present and the future on Carson Wentz. He has the talent to be one of the league’s top quarterbacks. He’s not there yet, but the Eagles treat him like he is, and that is part of the problem.

                      Carson Wentz's relationship with current quarterback coach Press Taylor has a different dynamic to it than what was there with John DeFilippo.
                      Some observers both inside and outside of the organization think Wentz needs a little more tough love than he’s currently getting from Pederson, Groh and specifically, Taylor.
                      “Carson played his best ball when DeFilippo was coaching him,’’ a personnel executive for an AFC team said. “Because John would get in his (butt). John and Reich had a good cop-bad cop thing going on. Reich would be the good cop and pat Carson on the butt, but Flip would stay on Carson and kept him on point and had him playing his best football.

                      “Personally, I think that’s what he needs right now, what he’s been lacking since (DeFilippo) left. Hard coaching. Right now, he’s got everybody there kissing his butt and that’s not helping him become a better player.’’
                      DeFilippo had spent nine years as an NFL assistant before becoming the Eagles’ quarterbacks coach in 2016. He had been Derek Carr’s position coach in Oakland and had been the offensive coordinator in Cleveland. He wasn’t afraid to tell Wentz what he didn’t know or what he was doing wrong. And he told him in no uncertain terms.
                      He had a good relationship with Wentz, but was hard on him. They were student and teacher, and the teacher wasn’t afraid to take out the ruler when it was necessary.
                      DeFilippo’s hard coaching paid off in 2017 when Wentz threw 33 touchdown passes and led the Eagles to an 11-2 record before that fateful December dive into the end zone at the LA Coliseum.

                      The 31-year-old Taylor was a quality-control coach with the Eagles for three years before becoming DeFilippo’s assistant in 2016. By all accounts, he is a talented coach with a promising future. But he has more of a buddy-buddy coaching relationship with Wentz than DeFilippo did.
                      “They’re different personality-wise,’’ Wentz said this week. “You’d need to mic’ them up to see (the difference) in how they conduct their business.
                      “But at the same time, I feel like I’ve worked really well with both of them. Press has been awesome to really grow together with, and just talk a lot of football. We’re in there watching tape and we both have lots of ideas. It’s been fun working with him. A lot of positives have come out of it.’’
                      Wentz has much more input into the Eagles’ offense and the weekly game plans now than he did two years ago. He’s two years older, two years more familiar with Doug Pederson’s offense, and, well, for better or worse, the $128 million they’re paying him has bought him a seat at the decision-making table.


                      “He’s got a lot of input into (the game plan),’’ Groh said. “We obviously want to put the right plan together, and use plays that he feels comfortable with.’’
                      The problem there is, if your best receiver is a 50/50 ball guy like Jeffery, but your quarterback doesn’t feel comfortable throwing those types of passes, and you don’t have a coach telling him he needs to get comfortable throwing them, well, that could be a problem. Same with RPOs, which Wentz also doesn’t love, but have been very effective in the past for the Eagles.
                      “I think as our relationship has grown and he’s gotten to know me and I’ve gotten to know him, I think we can be hard on each other,’’ Pederson said. “I can be hard on him and he can be hard back on me.
                      “I think that’s the dynamic of a good quarterback/head coach/play-caller relationship. I look at Sean Payton and Drew Brees and their relationship. It’s one of those give-and-take type relationships.’’
                      The difference is that Brees has played 15 more years and made 218 more starts and thrown more than 8,000 more passes than Wentz.
                      He doesn’t need tough love.
                      Figuring the Eagles


                      Brandon Graham has made 5½ of his 7½ sacks this season on third down.
                      --The Eagles have 34 sacks through their first 12 games. Fifteen have come on third down, nine on second down and 10 on first down. Of Brandon Graham’s team-high 7½ sacks, 5½ have come on third down.
                      --Eleven of the Eagles’ 34 sacks have come on blitzes, including eight in the last four games. That equals the most blitz-produced sacks they’ve had in the Jim Schwartz era. Eleven of their 38 sacks in 2017 came on blitzes. They had nine (of 44) last year and nine (of 34) in 2016.
                      --In the last five games, opposing quarterbacks have just a 40.5 completion percentage when the Eagles have blitzed. But they also have thrown three touchdowns against the blitz – Ryan Fitzpatrick’s 43-yarder to DeVante Parker on fourth-and-four Sunday, Russell Wilson’s 33-yard first-and-10 flea-flicker to Malik Turner in the loss to Seattle, and Bills running back Devin Singletary’s 28-yard catch-and-run on third-and-13.
                      --Carson Wentz’s completion percentage has dropped from a career-high 69.4 last year to 62.4 through the first 12 games. It has fallen at every distance. His completion percentage on throws of 20 yards or more has dropped from 36.9 last year to 34.0 this year. On 11-19 yard throws it’s dropped dramatically, from 63.1 to 55.4. On 0-10 yard throws, it’s fallen from 75.8 to 71.1. And on throws behind the line of scrimmage, from 91.0 to 87.0.
                      The case of the lingering stinger


                      Running back Jordan Howard has been out of action since the Eagles' Week 9 win over Chicago on Nov. 3.
                      Running back Jordan Howard likely will miss his fourth straight game Monday night with a stinger. The dirty little secret is that the Eagles have known since shortly after he suffered the injury in their November 3 win over Chicago that he probably would be out this long, even though Doug Pederson has been telling us since mid-November that he’s “progressing nicely’’ and “trending’’ and, my personal favorite, “day to day.’’
                      “Almost every game, somebody gets a stinger, but it usually goes away quickly, said Dr. David Chao, an orthopedic specialist and a former team doctor for the Chargers. “Quite honestly, most times, when you get a stinger, you don’t even tell the (training) staff about it. You shake it off and go.
                      “But the ones that don’t recover quickly recover slowly. Stingers either go away in seconds or minutes or they tend to linger. Once it goes to days, it often goes to weeks. And once it goes to weeks, it’s a slow sunrise. It’s not a light switch that’s going to happen.’’
                      Chao said stingers like Howard’s that don’t heal quickly typically are 4-to-6-week injuries. Sunday was five weeks since the injury for the Eagles running back.
                      Pederson clearly is hoping to get Howard back at some point. They haven’t put him on injured reserve, and when asked late last week whether it could be a season-ending injury, Pderson said, “I don’t believe so.’’
                      Howard needs to be cleared for contact by the team’s medical staff before he can return to play and that hasn’t happened yet, which likely means he hasn’t yet regained his strength and/or normal range of motion in his shoulder.
                      A stinger is a stretch or concussion of the nerves, usually at the brachial plexus, which is a network of nerves that exends from the spinal cord through the cervicoaxillary canal in the neck, over the first rib and into the armpit.
                      Chao said the Eagles have been doing Howard a disservice by suggesting for the last few weeks that he’s day to day, and listing him as questionable on the injury report two days before games.
                      “It makes it look like the player’s soft,’’ he said. “The reality is, while you’ve spent 2-3 weeks saying Jordan Howard might be close, they knew he wasn’t close at all.


                      “If you don’t know on Friday if he’s going to play on Sunday, that means he’s not going to play. If the nerve injury has been there for two or three or four weeks, two more days isn’t going to make a difference.
                      “If you’re 90 percent today, you’re not getting to 100 tomorrow. It’s 90, 91, 92, 93 and so on. It’s a slow process.’’




                      Posted: December 8, 2019 - 5:00 AM
                      Paul Domowitch | @pdomo | [email protected]
                      "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Agree that Carson needs coaching. I think all players do. Just like a golfer who needs to tweak his driving stroke or a pitcher who needs to tweak his delivery or a batter that is just a millimeter off. I don't see the games in person and rely on TV but I don't see Wentz on the sideline with is coach after a series. I see him on the sidelines. Sometimes I see him with other QBs but rarely do I see a coach. Maybe I am just missing it though.
                        And it has been well documented that he and Jeffrey just don't click like he and Ertz. However, that isn't his choice and they should be made to work on their timing or whatever is needed. If not you have to get rid of Jeffrey and NOT give him that contract extension. Not sure any of us no the real scoop there but QB and WR have to have a relationship to be real successful I would think.
                        I also think it important for Doug, or really Jeff and Howie, to listen to other NFL people about their players. Maybe other NFL execs don't give you what you want to know but there are enough scouts and talking heads who know.
                        Wait until next year is a terrible philosophy
                        Hope is not a strategy
                        RIP

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by NoDakIggle View Post
                          Agree that Carson needs coaching. I think all players do. Just like a golfer who needs to tweak his driving stroke or a pitcher who needs to tweak his delivery or a batter that is just a millimeter off. I don't see the games in person and rely on TV but I don't see Wentz on the sideline with is coach after a series. I see him on the sidelines. Sometimes I see him with other QBs but rarely do I see a coach. Maybe I am just missing it though.
                          And it has been well documented that he and Jeffrey just don't click like he and Ertz. However, that isn't his choice and they should be made to work on their timing or whatever is needed. If not you have to get rid of Jeffrey and NOT give him that contract extension. Not sure any of us no the real scoop there but QB and WR have to have a relationship to be real successful I would think.
                          I also think it important for Doug, or really Jeff and Howie, to listen to other NFL people about their players. Maybe other NFL execs don't give you what you want to know but there are enough scouts and talking heads who know.
                          That broad in the press always tries to keep it alive anyway. I think that he has more targets than anybody when he's actually on the field to tell you the truth. I don't know how to confirm that because stats don't include when you're on the field at the same time with other players or even deactivated for a couple of games or hurt on the sideline for half of the game. Heck Wentz threw the ball to him 6 or 7 times in a row on the Pinky Special with good success until teams finally figured it out.

                          Anyway, let's see how the team responds this week. I'll bet that Doug has called them out. Even if they win Monday it's got to carry on for the rest of the year or it might not me anything.
                          "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Eaglebreath View Post
                            That's fair enough. But, Carson is not playing at an MVP level right now. Period. He's the 4th highest paid player in the league based on annual salary. He's not playing like it, drops or not. And, while he may be far down on the list of problems, the 4th highest paid dude in the league probably shouldn't be on the list of problems at all. I'll say it again, if you are going to pay someone that much money, he better earn it, or it hurts your team. Carson is not playing up to his contract right now.
                            What is an MVP level? If the 7 4th quarter tds are caught instead of dropped does that make him an MVP candidate? It probably does as we have at least 3 maybe 4 more wins. He has almost 30 Td's to 6 ints.

                            The thing is in order to be an MVP at QB you have to have players around you that can make some plays. Look a the Ravens yesterday, Jackson is an helluva player and he to me is the MVP right now, but Hayden Hurst takes a pass about 15 yard pass and turns it into a 61yd Td. All on Hursts speed. Jackson didn't do anything special except throw him a good pass. For that he gets a 61 yard TD on his record. Just saying that in order for for a player to be an MVP others around him have to make plays. They have to get open, they have to catch the football, they have not fumble it etc.
                            Were from Philly F in Philly no one likes us we DON'T CARE!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If you ask yourself honestly why the Eagles have a 5-7 record instead of say 7-5 or 8-4 and your choices are:


                              1. Carson Wentz
                              or
                              2. The supporting cast
                              or
                              3. Coaching
                              or
                              4. Medical Staff (injuries)


                              How would you honestly assign percentages? Would Carson have any more than 10%?


                              1. 5%
                              2. 30%
                              3. 25%
                              4. 40%
                              Canada's #1 Eagles fan.

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