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Old 09-11-2009, 03:21 PM   #11
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I have to agree that as a passing QB, Vick has stunk. As a runner, he's got jets. But a QBneeds to be a great passer, FIRST. It's like the old argument about corners that can smack someone, vs ones that cover well. Cover first, and you don't need to be a great hitter.

Pass the ball and command the pocket well, and you won't have to be a great runner.

TDK can't. Or hasn't.
Wow...pretty shocking considering your stance on McNabb over the years as he made that transition.

Great passer first? When was McNabb a great passer first? When was McNair? Culpepper? Any of the good running QB?

McNabb ran (and Vick and the rest) because they did not yet master the pocket, reading D, running the O etc. and thus had to do what they could to help the team win...once McNabb learned those skills and made the transition, he did not need to run as much and stayed in the pocket running the O fully...

Vick needs to make that same transition...can he is an open question, but until now I would argue he was never really given the full chance. Here he might get that chance finally and then we can see what he'll do with it.
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Old 09-11-2009, 04:43 PM   #12
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Disagree...sucks means he could never do anything right and stunk every time out...that is plainly wrong to be applied to Vick.

He led his team to the NFCCG, won the only playoff game ever lost by the Pack at Lambeau and had his team pretty consistently in the hunt during his tenure despite a poor defense most of the time, poor coaching most of the time and limited talent on O to help him...
-NFCCG - That year they had a pretty good defense and and a good double team of Dunn/Duckett at RB. Not to mention the NFC was putrid that year.
-I actually missed the Lambeau game, so I can't really comment on that.

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If you think he sucks, you're a blind hater...what he is is flawed as a
POCKET QB focused on reading defenses, going thru his progressions and hitting the right guy without taking off running or ad-libbing so the play breaks down...
Like I said he doesn't know how to play the QB position. His ad-libbing was mostly successful against crappy NFC defenses like the Saints 2 times a year. Whenever he has faced a good defense with speed (Tampa, Philly) he has been shut down for the most part. And I'm not a blind hater, go back and read the "should Vick be reinstated thread", I was a strong supporter of letting him back in the league, I've just always thought he was a subpar player at the position he was playing.

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This was the progress McNabb was able to make (which some killed him for) but Vick has not been able to yet...one of the reasons he is here is to help get him to that point with better coaching, mentoring by McNabb, better weapons and OL etc.
By the end of his first year McNabb was already better at the basic fundamentals of being a QB than Vick is now. You want to know why? Because McNabb actually puts in the time off the field.


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Great passer first? When was McNabb a great passer first? When was McNair? Culpepper? Any of the good running QB?
McNabb and McNair were never "great" passers, but they've always been better than Vick. Culpepper had the benefit of playing with 2 of the top 5-10 best WRs to ever play the game. So while his skill level was probably never much higher than mediocre, he was still able to find success playing in the pocket be cause he could just use his strong arm to throw it as far as he could and Moss/Carter would just go get it.

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Originally Posted by Vote for Kalas View Post
McNabb ran (and Vick and the rest) because they did not yet master the pocket, reading D, running the O etc. and thus had to do what they could to help the team win...once McNabb learned those skills and made the transition, he did not need to run as much and stayed in the pocket running the O fully...

Vick needs to make that same transition...can he is an open question, but until now I would argue he was never really given the full chance. Here he might get that chance finally and then we can see what he'll do with it.
I've seen several quotes throughout the years from former teammates and coaches that Vick never liked to put in the necessary work off the field. So unless he has changed his work ethic I wouldn't count on much of a change. He needs to just bite the bullet and change is number and be listed as a WR.
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Old 09-12-2009, 03:14 PM   #13
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Main Line Animal Rescue would do better to use the funds people have donated for the animals in their care... not advertisements.
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Old 09-12-2009, 04:25 PM   #14
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Main Line Animal Rescue would do better to use the funds people have donated for the animals in their care... not advertisements.
No shit PJ. If I had donated to the place I'd be BS, and I really can't stand Vick.
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Old 09-12-2009, 05:40 PM   #15
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Wow...pretty shocking considering your stance on McNabb over the years as he made that transition.

Great passer first? When was McNabb a great passer first? When was McNair? Culpepper? Any of the good running QB?

McNabb ran (and Vick and the rest) because they did not yet master the pocket, reading D, running the O etc. and thus had to do what they could to help the team win...once McNabb learned those skills and made the transition, he did not need to run as much and stayed in the pocket running the O fully...

Vick needs to make that same transition...can he is an open question, but until now I would argue he was never really given the full chance. Here he might get that chance finally and then we can see what he'll do with it.
Every QB that you named here was a passer first. Jim Mora said Vick was a coach killer when his son coached Atlanta, and I believed him. I'm not sure what your stance is here VFK.
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Old 09-13-2009, 12:16 AM   #16
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Although TDK led the Falcons over GB, in GB's first home playoff defeat at Lambeau, I can only give TDK credit "because he got the job done" by getting the win. TDK himself was good though not spectacular (181 total yards, through 64 yards rushing on 10 scrambles, 13-25 passing for 117 yds and a TD). Really, as always it takes a whole team, and so a lot of credit goes to the Atlanta defense that day (5 turnovers) special teams (blocked punt for TD by none other than Mark Simoneau) and injuries to Green Bay (missing two Pro Bowl starters plus their #1 WR).

Same goes for their playoff win over the Rams. TDK gets the credit for his second playoff "W" there, though he ran for more yards than he threw (119 rushing vs. only 82 passing), and got serious help from his RB's (another 208 yards from Duckett and Dunn) and special teams (Allen Rossum set an NFL playoff record with 152 yards on 3 punt returns).

Too bad for the Falcons that their next playoff opponents in '02 and '04 had a much stingier defense and special teams (the Eagles of course )
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:25 AM   #17
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The Eagles should really stick it to their ad campaign and not play Vick at all this season.
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:28 AM   #18
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The Eagles should really stick it to their ad campaign and not play Vick at all this season.
They should not play Vick for a lot of reasons.
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