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Randall: HOF?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by rspurr
    He also had a 15-1 season in Minnesota in which he basically played perfect football and was a Gary Anderson missed FG away from the Super Bowl. I would have loved to see a Minnesota-Denver Super Bowl rather than that boring Atlanta team that made it.
    I seem to remember Minnesota having the ball with a minute left, tied game, at least two timeouts, and Dennis Green ordered them to take a knee and go to OT. With the most prolific offense in NFL history...maybe my memory's faulty, but if that's right, I'd blame Dennis Green too.


    Vick wins more playoff games = better shot for Randall
    "Philly fans are great....It's the only place where you pull up on the bus and you've got the grandfather, the grandmother, the kids and the grandkids - everybody flicking you off. At other stadiums, they give you the thumbs-down. Here, they give you the middle finger.”
    — Michael Strahan

    "No one likes us, no one likes us, no one likes us, we don’t care, we’re from Philly, F—-ing Philly, No one likes us, we don’t care!”
    - Jason Kelce with the best championship speech ever

    Comment


    • #17
      I would say yes. It may take him a few years but IMO he deserves to be in the HOF. His stats compare very well with others who will make it or have made it. I don't count the PO for the same reason VFK don't.

      He would have had a few more playoff wins if Ryan wasn't such a screw up when it came to the offense. I think if Randall had the luxury of playing now under Reid he would be dominate.
      FRESH > cancer

      I hate everything the Cowboys stand for. If you think they are America's team, then you support everything that is wrong with America. The excess, the greed, the lack of maturity, the lack of responsibility, the lack of control. - Luzinski's Gut

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by balto-eaglefan
        Vick wins more playoff games = better shot for Randall
        Damn. Randall is screwed.

        AS much as I loved Randall, I'm not sure he's HOF caliber QB.

        Comment


        • #19
          Randall is an GUARANTEED Hall of Famer. You people are nuts. And this is from Eagles fans???

          Randall won three MVP awards. Three. Know how many other people have done that since the merger? One, Brett Favre. Not Joe Montana, not John Elway, not Jerry Rice, not any number of Hall of Famers. So Randall's got hardware, even if it's not in ring form.

          But Randall wasn't just a star. He was a transcendant talent. The NFL had never seen anything like Randall before. And it still hasn't, in a way. For all the hype about Michael Vick, who still holds the record for rushing yards by a qb?

          Randall doesn't have the career numbers, it's true. But the Pro Football Hall of Fame is not the Baseball Hall of Fame. It's a different criteria, where peak excellence carries more weight than longtime consistency. That's why Lynn Swann has a bust and Art Monk buys a ticket. And Randall at his peak was like nothing the NFL had ever seen. That's a Hall of Famer.

          Comment


          • #20
            | Passing | Rushing |
            +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
            | Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
            +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
            | 1985 phi | 6 | 34 81 42.0 548 6.8 1 8 | 29 205 0 |
            | 1986 phi | 15 | 111 209 53.1 1391 6.7 8 7 | 66 540 5 |
            | 1987 phi | 12 | 223 406 54.9 2786 6.9 23 12 | 76 505 3 |
            | 1988 phi | 16 | 301 560 53.8 3808 6.8 24 16 | 93 624 6 |
            | 1989 phi | 16 | 290 532 54.5 3400 6.4 21 15 | 104 621 4 |
            | 1990 phi | 16 | 271 465 58.3 3466 7.5 30 13 | 118 942 5 |
            | 1991 phi | 1 | 1 4 25.0 19 4.8 0 0 | 0 0 0 |
            | 1992 phi | 15 | 233 384 60.7 2775 7.2 19 11 | 87 549 5 |
            | 1993 phi | 4 | 76 110 69.1 850 7.7 5 5 | 18 110 1 |
            | 1994 phi | 14 | 265 490 54.1 3229 6.6 16 13 | 65 288 3 |
            | 1995 phi | 7 | 69 121 57.0 605 5.0 3 5 | 21 98 0 |
            | 1997 min | 6 | 44 88 50.0 501 5.7 6 4 | 19 127 0 |
            | 1998 min | 16 | 259 425 60.9 3704 8.7 34 10 | 32 132 1 |
            | 1999 min | 7 | 124 200 62.0 1475 7.4 8 9 | 10 58 0 |
            | 2000 dal | 6 | 74 125 59.2 849 6.8 6 4 | 23 89 1 |
            | 2001 bal | 9 | 54 89 60.7 573 6.4 3 2 | 14 40 1 |
            +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
            | TOTAL | 166 | 2429 4289 56.6 29979 7.0 207 134 | 775 4928 35 |
            +----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+


            Seasons among the league's top 10
            Rushing yards: 1990-9
            Pass attempts: 1987-7, 1988-2, 1989-3, 1990-6, 1994-9
            Completions: 1987-10, 1988-3, 1989-5, 1990-6, 1998-9t
            Passing yards: 1987-9, 1988-3, 1989-10, 1990-6, 1998-5
            Passing TDs: 1987-4t, 1988-4, 1989-9t, 1990-2, 1992-6t, 1998-2
            Adjusted yards per pass: 1990-6, 1992-8, 1998-2


            Among the league's all-time top 50
            Pass attempts: 28
            Completions: 27
            Passing yards: 28
            Passing TDs: 24


            Postseason data
            Please read this fine print before using this data or sending questions or corrections.

            Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD
            ---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
            1988 chi L,12-20 | 27 54 407 0 3 | 3 12 0
            1989 ram L,7-21 | 24 40 238 0 1 | 6 39 0
            1990 was L,6-20 | 15 29 205 0 1 | 7 80 0
            1992 nor W,36-20 | 19 35 219 2 0 | 2 19 0
            1992 dal L,10-34 | 17 30 160 1 0 | 5 22 0
            1995 det W,58-37 | 0 0 0 0 0 | 2 15 0
            1995 dal L,11-30 | 11 26 161 0 1 | 3 19 1
            1997 nyg W,23-22 | 15 36 203 1 1 | 7 38 0
            1997 sfo L,22-38 | 18 40 331 3 1 | 2 14 0
            1998 ari W,41-21 | 17 27 236 3 1 | 3 6 0
            1998 atl L,27-30 | 29 48 266 2 0 | 6 13 1
            1999 dal W,27-10 | 0 0 0 0 0 | 3 -4 0
            ---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
            TOTAL | 192 365 2426 12 9 | 49 273 2
            www.disciplerocks.com

            Comment


            • #21
              The Case for Cunningham
              Why he belongs in the Hall of Fame.

              By Robert Weintraub/www.slate.com
              Posted Tuesday, Aug. 27, 2002, at 11:20 AM ET

              Cunningham: He's got the goodsThe debate over whether just-retired Terrell Davis belongs in the Hall of Fame has dominated the chattering classes of sport since T.D. announced he was finished a week ago. Obscured has been the recent retirement of a player who will also stir some argument, although to my mind he clearly belongs in the hall—Randall Cunningham.

              The NFL MVP award is given out annually by three different entities. Cunningham won the award in 1988, 1990, and 1998—only Jim Brown, Y.A. Tittle, Johnny Unitas, and Brett Favre have been honored in as many years, and they're all in Canton or headed there. Joe Montana won MVPs in only two seasons. Needless to say, Joe Cool didn't have an eight-year gap between awards, nor has anyone else.

              When Cunningham was drafted in 1985, black QBs were still a rarity. Doug Williams' historic Super Bowl win was still two years away, and the idea that fast, athletic blacks could succeed at the position was anathema to head coaches around the league. It took Buddy Ryan, a defensive guru who understood the kind of pressure a game-breaker like Cunningham could put on a defense, to prove that a black scrambler could not just survive but thrive in a league increasingly based on speed. Nowadays, with Kordell Stewart, Donovan McNabb, and Michael Vick making a QB who can run or pass seem a necessary part of modern football, it's easy to forget the Mesozoic Era when Randall was a curiosity. Yet it was only 15 years ago.

              --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

              The big knock against Randall is that he never won or even made it to a Super Bowl. Moreover, he never distinguished himself in the playoffs. Aside from the stunning loss to Atlanta in the 1998 NFC Championship game, which Gary Anderson and the Vikings D blew, Cunningham's most memorable playoff moment was probably the 1988 Fog Bowl loss to the Bears, where he somehow threw for 407 yards but also threw for three crucial INTs. He was actually benched by Buddy during a 1990 playoff loss to the Redskins.

              But, boy, did he single-handedly carry the Philadelphia Eagles. Taking over from the lead-footed Ron Jaworski in 1987, Cunningham turned in a spectacular four years that saw him not only average more than 3,000 yards and 24 TDs passing, but also lead the team in rushing, including a staggering 942 yards in 1990, the standing record for quarterbacks.

              Cunningham's stats match or beat the Hall of Fame locks of his era. Dan Marino and John Elway played in offenses geared to their passing ability and had almost double Randall's passing attempts, so they racked up bigger numbers. Marino and Elway are ranked 1 and 2 in most all-time passing stats, but Randall is in the top 25, and there are 25 QBs in the hall—you do the math. The all-important yards-per-pass attempt stat is basically equal: Marino 7.3 per attempt, Elway 7.1, Cunningham 7.0. And Cunningham has a better TD-to-INT ratio than Elway, 1.54 to 1.33.

              Randall compares more favorably to Troy Aikman, another Canton lock, who played exactly one less game in his career. Aikman, one of history's most accurate passers, beats out Randall in completion percentage (61.5 to 56.6) and has about 3,000 more yards in 500 more attempts. But Randall threw for 42 more TDs and seven fewer INTs, and the yards-per-attempt for both is 7.0. Toss in the rushing (4,928 yards and 35 TDs for Cunningham, 1,016 and nine for Aikman), and Cunningham moves past the Golden Boy.

              And whither Warren Moon? (saratoga edit: Moon thinks that Randall should get in) The general consensus is that Moon is a Hall of Famer while Randall isn't. The former Oiler racked up huge numbers by throwing on virtually every down, and he ranks just behind Marino and Elway in the accumulated stats. But his TD-to-INT ratio (1.24) is much lower than Cunningham's (1.54). And Moon, hardly a sterling playoff performer, never took his team to a Super Bowl. If Moon belongs in the Hall, so does Randall.

              Like Archie Manning, Cunningham racked up his numbers with mediocre supporting casts. His receivers and backs in the Eagle era included the geriatric Herschel Walker, the oft-injured Keith Jackson and Fred Barnett, Keith Byars, and other assorted mediocrities. Only during his comeback with Minnesota—throwing to Cris Carter and Randy Moss, with Robert Smith running through gaping holes—did Randall get in on the fun Montana, Aikman, and Steve Young were having for most of their careers.

              About that comeback: In 1998, already knocked out of the game by injuries, the 35-year-old Cunningham left his granite and marble business in Las Vegas and mounted one of the more triumphant and unlikely second acts in NFL history. The nonpareil scrambler reinvented himself as a pure pocket passer. The Vikes set the single-season points record, as Randall threw for more than 3,700 yards and 34 TDs with an astounding 106 QB rating. Cunningham was voted to his fourth Pro Bowl, and Minnesota dominated the league, going 16-1 before falling to Atlanta in the NFC Championship game.

              Cunningham had some divine magic in his fast-twitch muscles. Three plays stand out in Randall's pantheon of the miraculous. One comes from a 1990 game against Buffalo, when Cunningham, throwing from his end zone, was about to be engulfed from the blind side by Bruce Smith. Spidey-sense at full tingle, Randall ducked under the flying tackle and heaved a pass 60 yards off his back foot. The result: an unforgettable 95-yard touchdown.

              The other two came at the expense of the New York Giants, for whom the late-'80s were a Sisyphean struggle to control No. 12 in green and white. In a 1988 game on Monday Night Football, Giants LB Carl Banks torpedoed in and crunched the Eagle QB at the midriff. Most players would have landed in the third row, but Cunningham managed to twist his body in midair, put a hand down for balance while parallel to the ground, regain his footing, and dive in for the score. The following season, Randall uncorked a 91-yard, into-the-wind punt to clinch a key game against the G-men. It was the greatest display of punting by a quarterback since Sammy Baugh led the league from 1940 to 43.

              While individual plays don't make a career, part of being a Hall of Famer is leaving an indelible impression. Cunningham was the most electrifying player not named B. Sanders to take the field since Gale Sayers was knocked from the game. And unlike Terrell Davis, Randall made it back from crippling injuries to return to the pinnacle of the sport. These attributes, plus his pioneer status, far outweigh his lack of a Super Bowl ring and are why Cunningham should be voted into Canton on the first ballot five years hence.
              www.disciplerocks.com

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              • #22
                Prior to hearing Moon say that he supports Randall for the HOF, I never would have thought him good enough. But I see some substantially good arguments for his induction.
                www.disciplerocks.com

                Comment


                • #23
                  Saratoga, after reading that article, I've changed my vote. He deserves the Hall.

                  Damn.................still amazed that I typed it. It'd be easier if he'd at least appeared in a Supe.
                  "Philly fans are great....It's the only place where you pull up on the bus and you've got the grandfather, the grandmother, the kids and the grandkids - everybody flicking you off. At other stadiums, they give you the thumbs-down. Here, they give you the middle finger.”
                  — Michael Strahan

                  "No one likes us, no one likes us, no one likes us, we don’t care, we’re from Philly, F—-ing Philly, No one likes us, we don’t care!”
                  - Jason Kelce with the best championship speech ever

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Great stats, great stories and great support. The one thing that was missed on all of this was that he was GOOD to the press and he was GOOD off the field. I witnessed Randall walk into the outer parking lot at the Vet to be swarmed by autograph seekers. He stood there and graciously signed them. He even paused during one signing, looked me straight in the eyes and said, "Hey man, thank you." I replied, "NO! THANK YOU!!!!" and ran off screaming to my buddies in a drunk'n stuppar. (Then got my softball scorebook and went and got autographs from Waters, Jackson and #99, Jerome Brown.)

                    And le't not forget how he would crush the QB competition in the summer, until the final event in which he always screwed up going for the long pass. Still, he would only lose to one guy each year.

                    What a fantastic athlete and down to earth person.
                    Pedro

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I just worry that there are too many curmudgeons, like Dr.Z, that have a vote and will keep him out.
                      Canada's #1 Eagles fan.

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                      • #26
                        The HOF should be for only the great, legendary players of the NFL. Randall was very good, occasionally great, but i don't see him as hall-worthy.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I loved Randall. He's my all time favourite Eagle. I'd put him in the HOF for sure.
                          "He was trapped in a haircut, he no longer believed in" Billy Bragg

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I'd pass on Randall going into the Hall. His cumulative stats are somewhat impressive, and I'd even go so far as to say he was a great player in his prime. But his career was pretty much four seasons (87-90) of excellent play, with a fluke season thrown in towards the end on a team that made Jeff George look good. It's just not enough IMO.

                            Just as an aside regarding Randall's interview with Jody Mac: His explanation for not going to Canton was one of the more awkward and lame excuses I've heard. He said he bought a ticket and actually went to the airport, then said "it just didn't work out". Worse off, Jody Mac didn't press him and just let it go as Randall being Randall.
                            Your confidence in your team is high, but rest assured, you will suffer humiliation when the sports team from my area defeats the sports team from your area.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Sub
                              He said he bought a ticket and actually went to the airport, then said "it just didn't work out".
                              WTF??

                              Randal is KRAZY w/ a capital K.

                              I'm gonna spring that one on my wife. "Yeah babe, i meant to come home last night, i gassed up the car, started driving towards home, but it just didn't work out..."

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Count me in as one who believes Randall belongs in the HOF. Before RC there were so few black QB's in the NFL. In fact when I was growing up there were two and they were my heroes (Joe Gilliam and James Harris). I always wondered why there were so many black QB's in the college ranks leading teams and winning championships and bowl games but never becoming NFL QB's. They either became WRs, DBs RBs or went to CFL (Warren Moon). Then RC came along. The NFL has always had scrambling QB's (Fran Tarkenton Roger Staubach, Bert Jones, John Elway) but no one changed the way defenses played until RC came along. Teams had to now employ "spies" on the QB. RC brought a different kind of athleticism to the position. He won enough and won MVP's and POY awards to help eliminate that stupid stereotype (see Campanis, Al). I believe there is no way that today you would see McNabb, Culpepper, Brooks, Vince Young, Vick as starting QBs in the NFL. Just think Donovan would probably be a RB, Culpepper a TE, Brooks and Young WRs and Vick as a DB/PR. Even bigger than that would Seneca Wallace and Marques Tuiopsiposo(sp?) be in the NFL as back ups. That is just offensive side of the ball. Think about how defenses are employing "speed rushers" not just to beat huge OLs but to get to these super athletic QB's so many teams now employ. RC's stats are comparable to others in the HOF but his contribution to the QB position is what makes him more deserving of being in.
                                I miss Philly!

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