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(OT) Mass shooting in San Bernandino - Multiple fatalities reported

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  • #16
    Originally posted by FRESH View Post
    Well, if it makes you feel any better. Estimates were that in just 1985, there were 1 Billion Christians. By 2000, that had become 2 billion. They are not the only ones successfully recruiting.
    For some reason they never piss China off. I would love it because they don't give a shit about anything. No politically correct crap over there!
    "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Eagle60 View Post
      For some reason they never piss China off. I would love it because they don't give a shit about anything. No politically correct crap over there!
      China also has a problem with its indigenous Muslim population. There are tensions between Muslims and the Chinese government and between various Islamic sects. China has a very repressive government and super strict gun laws, which is why you don't hear of violent uprisings or mass shootings.
      "Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann



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      • #18
        Originally posted by FRESH View Post
        Well, if it makes you feel any better. Estimates were that in just 1985, there were 1 Billion Christians. By 2000, that had become 2 billion. They are not the only ones successfully recruiting.
        Actually, this does not make me feel better. In fact, this is exactly the problem - the attempt to "recruit" people into a particular religion. Until people of religious faith begin to understand that there are many paths to God, and, therefore, no one religion is better than another, there will be religious conflict.

        Islamic extremism will not be conquered by any violent attempt to restrain it. In fact, it will probably just result in "recruiting" more extremist converts. Radical Islam will not be fully conquered until moderate followers of Islam stand up and reject this extremism as a perversion of their religion and also begin to see that all religions are equal paths to God (Paradise, Heaven, Jannah, Nirvana, etc.).

        The idea that Islam is the only true religion is the source of Islamic extremism. What we should we should be fighting is the idea of exclusivity and superiority that separates religious people instead of unifying them. We should be seeking commonalities between religions instead of differences, otherwise religious belief will continue to be the number one cause of strife between people as it has been throughout history.

        Anyway, those are my beliefs. You can agree with me, or condemn me to your hell - in which case I will simply tell you that I am on my path and don't need to be recruited to your's.
        "Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann



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        • #19
          Originally posted by stocknowledge View Post
          Actually, this does not make me feel better. In fact, this is exactly the problem - the attempt to "recruit" people into a particular religion. Until people of religious faith begin to understand that there are many paths to God, and, therefore, no one religion is better than another, there will be religious conflict.

          Islamic extremism will not be conquered by any violent attempt to restrain it. In fact, it will probably just result in "recruiting" more extremist converts. Radical Islam will not be fully conquered until moderate followers of Islam stand up and reject this extremism as a perversion of their religion and also begin to see that all religions are equal paths to God (Paradise, Heaven, Jannah, Nirvana, etc.).

          The idea that Islam is the only true religion is the source of Islamic extremism. What we should we should be fighting is the idea of exclusivity and superiority that separates religious people instead of unifying them. We should be seeking commonalities between religions instead of differences, otherwise religious belief will continue to be the number one cause of strife between people as it has been throughout history.

          Anyway, those are my beliefs. You can agree with me, or condemn me to your hell - in which case I will simply tell you that I am on my path and don't need to be recruited to your's.
          Sentiments with which I generally agree, presented articulately.

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          • #20
            Sira, p463-4: Then they {the tribe of Quraiza} surrendered, and the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of Bani al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy bin Akhtab and Kab bin Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the Apostle they asked Kab what he thought would be done with them. He replied, “Will you never understand? Don’t you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!” This went on until the Apostle made an end of them.


            ISIS you say??? No. "Prophet" Muhammad.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Eaglebreath View Post
              Sira, p463-4: Then they {the tribe of Quraiza} surrendered, and the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of Bani al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy bin Akhtab and Kab bin Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the Apostle they asked Kab what he thought would be done with them. He replied, “Will you never understand? Don’t you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!” This went on until the Apostle made an end of them.


              ISIS you say??? No. "Prophet" Muhammad.
              Very comforting. WTF???
              "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

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              • #22
                Originally posted by stocknowledge View Post
                Actually, this does not make me feel better. In fact, this is exactly the problem - the attempt to "recruit" people into a particular religion. Until people of religious faith begin to understand that there are many paths to God, and, therefore, no one religion is better than another, there will be religious conflict.

                Islamic extremism will not be conquered by any violent attempt to restrain it. In fact, it will probably just result in "recruiting" more extremist converts. Radical Islam will not be fully conquered until moderate followers of Islam stand up and reject this extremism as a perversion of their religion and also begin to see that all religions are equal paths to God (Paradise, Heaven, Jannah, Nirvana, etc.).

                The idea that Islam is the only true religion is the source of Islamic extremism. What we should we should be fighting is the idea of exclusivity and superiority that separates religious people instead of unifying them. We should be seeking commonalities between religions instead of differences, otherwise religious belief will continue to be the number one cause of strife between people as it has been throughout history.

                Anyway, those are my beliefs. You can agree with me, or condemn me to your hell - in which case I will simply tell you that I am on my path and don't need to be recruited to your's.

                Absolutely agree with the concept of freedom of religion, and each having their own path to God. The extreme reaction to the term " recruiting" however, is alarming to me. However, it, along with "radicalized" are common terms used when people refer to those committing these atrocious crimes.....in the name of a deity.

                Jehovah's Witness have tried to recruit me. The closest I can say that I have experienced that in churches that I have attended is a pastor imploring children of God to be baptized. But that is simply my experience, and I was not offended or intimidated.

                Also, in response to your desire tho have the regligions find commonalities.........for the most part, I don't see how that is possible. No one whole follows the Bible and takes it as truth could stray even a minute distance from its teachings. Fortunately, the bible does not suggest that I kill my fellow man, and instred implores that I resolve conflicts with my brothers.

                Sorry, but I see the problem as coming primarily from the other side of the fence. Yuo can agree with THAT..........or not. I wish you gods blessings either way.
                Last edited by FRESH; 12-04-2015, 09:15 PM.
                http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by rspurr View Post
                  Agree with everything you said expect the 75-80% is probably more like 90-95%.
                  Actually rspur, most of the intelligence services around the world put the radical element of Islam at 15-25%.
                  Official Driver of the Eagles Bandwagon!!!
                  Bleedin' Green since birth!

                  "Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many." - Mike Willey

                  ”Enjoy The Ride!!!” - Bob Marcus

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                  • #24
                    I don't know. It sounds to me like these were two unassuming people who decided to join ISIS. I don't know how ordinary they were, but it seems like they were living a pretty good life. Then they decide they were going to help Allah out by blowing away 20 people including themselves. I love God and I love America, but I'm not hoping a flight to Syria to go blow up me and a dozen Muslims. It will never enter my mind, no matter how much stuff people bombard me with it. Sure there are good Muslim people, but that religion and those people are fucked up. And for those I offend I say wake up and smell the coffee and don't turn your back on one. And don't mistreat one for no good reason either!

                    I go into convenience stores that they own and sometimes it's downright scary. Half of them are so nice and polite it's almost embarrassing, while the other half look right through you and ignore the fact that you exist and I back out the door after I pay.
                    "Hey Giants, who's your Daddy?"

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                    • #25
                      Some good posts on touchy subjects. Stock I certainly agree with your points. I don't see any conflict between freedom of religion and separation of church and state. People have asked me how I can say that and I tell them this is a Christian nation built upon Christian principles that guarantees others freedom to practice their own religion. But as with all things we have in our constitution it only allows that if your practicing of your freedom doesn't infringe on my practice. So you can't have a mosque blaring out a call to prayer and I can't have a church with a loudspeaker blaring out the service. You can't play your country so loud that I can't listen to my rock and roll and the same goes for the other guy. The government can't tell me who I can or can not marry. The church can say they will or won't marry me. Tolerance and respect for your fellow man. It isn't that complicated.
                      As for the terrorist (because they are terrorist not just Muslims). I agree Juk. You have to get the families (actually the Mothers) to rise up and demand an end to the deaths. So, you bomb the hell out of them (including their women, children, hospitals, schools, etc) until they want no more. Or you militarily take over their country and occupy it for decades, as we did with Germany and Japan, until they learn to like they way you make them live. I am not sure which one the American people want to buy into.
                      Wait until next year is a terrible philosophy
                      Hope is not a strategy
                      RIP

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Eaglebreath View Post
                        Sira, p463-4: Then they {the tribe of Quraiza} surrendered, and the apostle confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of Bani al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy bin Akhtab and Kab bin Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the Apostle they asked Kab what he thought would be done with them. He replied, “Will you never understand? Don’t you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!” This went on until the Apostle made an end of them.


                        ISIS you say??? No. "Prophet" Muhammad.
                        I have only recently begun a surface exploration of the Muslim religion and the prophet Muhammad, prompted by a recognition that Muslim extremism has arguably become, and will be, one of the most important issues of our time. As with any monumental issue where there are opposing strong beliefs and passionate emotions, one needs to be wary of the source and possible agenda underlying the information they take in. That said, I have found some interesting conflicts in the alleged teachings of the Prophet.

                        I too have read the above passage along with other writings attributed to 'The Prophet' that are equally chilling in the brutality called for in dealing with infidels, captured enemies and Muslim apostates. How can calls for violence like this possibly be squared with the argument that Islam is a religion of peace?

                        I have read that there is a clear distinction in tone between the writings and preaching of Muhammad in Mecca, where he was born and first proclaimed himself a prophet of God (Allah) versus his writings/preaching in Medina, to which he and his followers migrated in 622 (the Hijra) when Muhammad was 52.

                        For the most part, in Mecca, Muhammad was seeking power and acceptance and was often faced with rejection and hostility. In Medina he became very powerful and widely embraced as The Prophet. What is often referred to as the (earlier) 'Meccan writings' are seen as inclined to peacefulness and tolerance while the (later) 'Medinan writings' often call for brutally harsh treatment of infidels or any Muslim who strays from the 'straight and narrow path to the One True God.

                        Is this an accurate portrayal of the seeming change (for the worse) in Muhammad's teachings as he grew older and more powerful? Who knows? I've always put great stock in the adage "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

                        It would seem that, just as sub-groups of other faiths (Christians, Jews, Hindus) use seeming discrepancies/inconsistencies in their religious writings to advance their particular agendas, Muslims have sufficient inconsistencies in their religious 'literature' to support widely diverging basic beliefs and behavior. The real problem is that for a significant minority of Muslim extremists, they find justification for the slaughter of countless innocents.

                        And that, as is says in my Agnostic's Sacred Writings, is really fucked up!

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by tinopuno View Post
                          I have only recently begun a surface exploration of the Muslim religion and the prophet Muhammad, prompted by a recognition that Muslim extremism has arguably become, and will be, one of the most important issues of our time. As with any monumental issue where there are opposing strong beliefs and passionate emotions, one needs to be wary of the source and possible agenda underlying the information they take in. That said, I have found some interesting conflicts in the alleged teachings of the Prophet.

                          I too have read the above passage along with other writings attributed to 'The Prophet' that are equally chilling in the brutality called for in dealing with infidels, captured enemies and Muslim apostates. How can calls for violence like this possibly be squared with the argument that Islam is a religion of peace?

                          I have read that there is a clear distinction in tone between the writings and preaching of Muhammad in Mecca, where he was born and first proclaimed himself a prophet of God (Allah) versus his writings/preaching in Medina, to which he and his followers migrated in 622 (the Hijra) when Muhammad was 52.

                          For the most part, in Mecca, Muhammad was seeking power and acceptance and was often faced with rejection and hostility. In Medina he became very powerful and widely embraced as The Prophet. What is often referred to as the (earlier) 'Meccan writings' are seen as inclined to peacefulness and tolerance while the (later) 'Medinan writings' often call for brutally harsh treatment of infidels or any Muslim who strays from the 'straight and narrow path to the One True God.

                          Is this an accurate portrayal of the seeming change (for the worse) in Muhammad's teachings as he grew older and more powerful? Who knows? I've always put great stock in the adage "Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely."

                          It would seem that, just as sub-groups of other faiths (Christians, Jews, Hindus) use seeming discrepancies/inconsistencies in their religious writings to advance their particular agendas, Muslims have sufficient inconsistencies in their religious 'literature' to support widely diverging basic beliefs and behavior. The real problem is that for a significant minority of Muslim extremists, they find justification for the slaughter of countless innocents.

                          And that, as is says in my Agnostic's Sacred Writings, is really fucked up!
                          It's fucked up. But, a huge problem is the fact that western politicians and media keep selling the narrative that Jihadists are corrupting a peaceful religion. The reality is that they are following the example set by Muhammad during his conquests, and they are following the Quranic dictates that were revealed after AD622. Their behavior is justified in those Islamic texts, and in the example of Muhammad, and they damned well know it. But, instead of having an honest conversation about this, and calling into question the example set by Muhammad, and what the Islamic texts actually teach, we, as free westerners, get the mushroom treatment. And, if you do have the audacity to speak out about these things, then you are an Islamophobe, a bigot, or in some parts of the world, prosecuted for hate speech, and inciting hatred against Muslims.

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                          • #28
                            You can also find crazy things in the bible =>> http://www.salon.com/2014/05/31/11_k...gnore_partner/
                            "Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann



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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by stocknowledge View Post
                              You can also find crazy things in the bible =>> http://www.salon.com/2014/05/31/11_k...gnore_partner/
                              So? You can also find a lot of crazy stuff on this forum. We're talking about Islam, and in this case, Islamic jihad. What the bible says is irrelevant.

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                              • #30
                                Time to move this...... Jimho.

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