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  • Some thoughts on the Saints loss

    Hey, MDFan urged me to check in. I've been super busy, but wanted to throw out a few thoughts.

    First, you guys on this board have watched the NFL for years. C'mon, you knew the Eagles were fat and happy after the nation patted them on the back over the TO bowl. Same thing with the Bears. NFL teams CAN'T get jacked for 16 weeks. It doesn't happen. The key for the good teams is to pull out a win in those inevitable flat games. The Eagles played a good Saints team at home, rallied in the 2nd half, were in aposition to win and lost. The Bears deserved far more to lose and won, against a lesser squad.

    So what is the point? Its a long season. Its HARD in the NFL to win 3 in a row, and the Birds had done that after the NY Giant debacle. It would have been 4 in a row off an emotional win facing a well coached team in a loud dome. Not a great recipe. Still, Philly should have won.

    Style make fights. The Saints "match up well" with us if you think about it. We are a pressure D. They have a big OL, like to run the ball with a power guy and a speed guy. They STICK WITH the run. AT QB, they have a guy who is efficient like a machine--that is in the 15 yard and under range. They dink and dunk and run--exactly the thing our D is least designed to handle. Right?

    Defensively, we had no Stallworth. So they had their CB's go man under with some safety help rolling to one side. They did drop an 8th man to handle some runs and to take away shorter throws and to bring heat.

    They have some nice DE's. There were plays to be made but too many drops. Hey men, we are playing with alot of babies on O. What do you expect? I saw Avant, Baskett, and others--alot of first and second year starters.

    Defensively, Jom Johnson needs to understand this D only can handle one style--attack. He's so scared of the big play, he gives up huge chunks of yards on first down. Trotter, IMO, has not played well lately. He is running himself out of plays again. McCoy--like the fire, but he needs to be more consistent. The entire DL just had an awful game.

    I'm not a knee jerk guy. The reason I don't do the boards so much anymore is the whole "we are awesome, Miami bound" after a big win like Dallas, and then "we suck, sky is falling" after losing to a well coached team who played great in a "statement" game for them!

    Here's what NFL coaches do. Divide the season into quarters. The Birds were 3-1 in the first quarter. They are 1-1 in the second so far. I expect them to beat Tampa, then Jax at home, and then after the bye, win as usual. They will then be 3-1 in the second "quarter" of the season, and standing at 6-2. Right on track to 12-4.

    Yes the season gets harder schedule wise, but lets see who is still competitive in December, shall we? Maybe Atlanta will tank by then. Skins could implode, Dallas still is shaky (shouldn't you drill the Texans at home coming off a loss?). 12-4 wins the division for sure. 11-5 could too. 10-6 gets in as a wild card.

    Now, onto the D. Biggest problem I saw Sunday was just getting off the abll, playing with fire, and wrapping up. Yes I'd like to see the CB's press more, and more run blitzes.

    What won them the game was JJ's too much respect he gave Bush. We should have played 8 in the box, pressed the CB's and had Dawk as free deep. The Saints WR's lack speed. So why the cushion? It was to contain Bush, and played right into Payton's hands.

    Also, how about a little credit to the other team? They protected well on the OL with 2 rookies. The stick throws Brees made for the one TD to Horn in traffic and to many guys on 3rd downs were just great throws. Can you really say the coverage was bad except for Mike Lewis on the tying TD? I can't. Looked like a great QB finding the holes in the D and nailing it. Tip your cap. And remember, how many teams have the loud dome, 2 great backs, a coach who has schemed against our D for like 7 years, and an accurate as a laser QB, plus 2 speed rush ends and 2 good bump CB's? Not many. Styles make fights.

    Too much crying for my taste on every Eagles message board. Its cool to vent, but be realistic. Many thought we'd struggle to make the playoffs before the season started, now everybody wants 13-3. Sheesh. We have a YOUNG TEAM, that should get BETTER as the season goes on. And YES, I'd START Considine! Mike Lewis is getting exposed weekly now. SC won't get beat that bad--he doesn't bite at every fake, can run a little better,k and has much better anticipation and ball skills. THAT should help ALOT. The fire will be back again and you will see improvement up front.

    I also like Ramsey better than Truck Driver. His athleticism helps.

    Bottom line, we have a good team, not a great team, that will get better as the season goes on, and which has to play SMARTER on D, with lots of emotion every week, and with tighter CB play and a new SS. With Hood back healthy, SC starting, and everyone firing off the ball on D, it'll be OK. Relax Eagles Nation. The Saints played us at the RIGHT TIME. Nothing else, OK? They whopped the Falcons, and held their own at Carolina. Its not a "bad loss" in that respect.

    Finally, our coaches should have anticipated the letdown, and put in more aggressive plays to wake up the troops. Where was the gadget play? Its almost like the Eagle coaches sort of mailed it in this week. On to TB..

  • #2
    Another terrific post JRJ. Thanks !

    "Defensively, Jom Johnson needs to understand this D only can handle one style--attack. He's so scared of the big play, he gives up huge chunks of yards on first down. "

    This is my biggest concern about the team right now. And, it is probably the easiest one to address. I thought after the Giants game that we would see more agressiveness out of JJ.

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't know about your last statement. I think the Offense was probably too aggressive in this game. They threw the ball alot down the field. Defensively, they need to be more aggressive in attacking the recievers at the line of scrimage, they need to throw off the dink an dunk game
      Were from Philly F in Philly no one likes us we DON'T CARE!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by taz
        I don't know about your last statement. I think the Offense was probably too aggressive in this game. They threw the ball alot down the field. Defensively, they need to be more aggressive in attacking the recievers at the line of scrimage, they need to throw off the dink an dunk game
        The CB's did attack the receivers in the Dallas game. But against N.O., JJ seemed to play not to lose.

        I am hoping that this game is a wake up call. You have to be aggressive, even against teams that you are supposed to beat.

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        • #5
          First of all, its like we a re a broken record.

          Reid needs to run the ball better. I'll let you in on a little secret--Westbrook is a great weapon but only an average "running back", and IMO, a BELOW average runner between the tackles. Way, way too many of his runs go for minus, no gains or less than 2 yard gains. I see the holes and he just doesn't slam it in there unless he sees a big opening. he is dancing, always looking to bounce it outside.

          I want to see Buckhalter and Moats more involved in the running game. Buck will hit it up in there harder, and really Moats hits it fastest now.

          Plus, the running game works the clock and helps the D and also helps set up the deep shots. You can't just bomb away in the NFL. You have to have the credible run threat to sell play action and take the safety into the box. DMac is getting hit again because the RATIO is getting whacky again! Why won't Reid learn????? Yes, I see Westy isn't a good runner between the tackles, so flex him out and get the other RB's some carries too. Or pull some guards and run off tackle once in a while and catch teams blitzing and hit one on them.

          Yes, the D IMO needs to PLAY TO ITS IDENTITY-for better or worse. THINK ABOUT IT< WITH OUR EXPLOSIVE OFFENSE, IF THE OTHER TEAM SCORES TD'S YOU WANT THE< TO SCORE QUICKLY, RIGHT? The slow death on D doesn't fit the O!!!!!!! So take some chances like vs. Dallas, Sure they'll get gashed, but they'll also get turnovers and sacks to kill drives and if they get scored on it will be "quicker" and get the ball back to the O.

          We have to win track meet type games unless Andy discovers how to run well again. Like the 1999 Rams.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for stopping by JRJ... and honestly, I don't think too many of the sky is falling crowds reside here. As with any board I have ever seen there will always be a few guys that get tooo high after a win and toooo low after a loss.

            You're right it's a long season, we are a young team, and we are still 4 and 2 and in first place!

            Hey, and stop being such an "irregular" poster.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JRJ
              First of all, its like we a re a broken record.

              Reid needs to run the ball better. I'll let you in on a little secret--Westbrook is a great weapon but only an average "running back", and IMO, a BELOW average runner between the tackles. Way, way too many of his runs go for minus, no gains or less than 2 yard gains. I see the holes and he just doesn't slam it in there unless he sees a big opening. he is dancing, always looking to bounce it outside.

              I want to see Buckhalter and Moats more involved in the running game. Buck will hit it up in there harder, and really Moats hits it fastest now.

              Plus, the running game works the clock and helps the D and also helps set up the deep shots. You can't just bomb away in the NFL. You have to have the credible run threat to sell play action and take the safety into the box. DMac is getting hit again because the RATIO is getting whacky again! Why won't Reid learn????? Yes, I see Westy isn't a good runner between the tackles, so flex him out and get the other RB's some carries too. Or pull some guards and run off tackle once in a while and catch teams blitzing and hit one on them.

              Yes, the D IMO needs to PLAY TO ITS IDENTITY-for better or worse. THINK ABOUT IT< WITH OUR EXPLOSIVE OFFENSE, IF THE OTHER TEAM SCORES TD'S YOU WANT THE< TO SCORE QUICKLY, RIGHT? The slow death on D doesn't fit the O!!!!!!! So take some chances like vs. Dallas, Sure they'll get gashed, but they'll also get turnovers and sacks to kill drives and if they get scored on it will be "quicker" and get the ball back to the O.

              We have to win track meet type games unless Andy discovers how to run well again. Like the 1999 Rams.

              obviously you havent been paying attention to some of the denizens of this board, who laugh at the need to run more and control the clock better.

              i agree about trotter -- he and lewis are really coming up short on D. Trotter cannot be on passing downs, ever, and his run d is not as disciplined this year.

              fortunately, everything's fixable. run more with bucky and moats, for crying out loud. play considine. make sure trotter is not in the game when his presence can hurt them. play barber and gaither more.
              Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

              Comment


              • #8
                thanks JRJ. Good stuff.
                I think most on this board would agree with your thoughts on records, emotions, win streaks etc. It just doesn't build confidence to see games against good teams, teams that the Eagles will have to beat in the playoffs, slip through their fingers.

                Hopefully, they do improve as the season goes on, just like you said.

                The coaching staff seems to me to be the bigger culprit right now. They aren't "putting the players in positions to win".

                Unfortunately, these are some of the same problems that have plagued this team during the Reid era. I'm not sure when they are going to make conscious decisions and take decisive action to correct these things.
                www.disciplerocks.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  As Fans we sometimes forget that the roster has 9 rookies and 10 second year players on this squad.Nobody felt worse than Omar Gaither last week being the 12th man on the field but hey,youngbloods are gonna make dumbass mistakes.As the season goes on hopefully,those mistakes are corrected.I fully expect this Club to be full bast in December especially with Stallworth,Hood,& Westy healthy.
                  We'll be fine there Boys!
                  Just give me ONE before I go!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Run /pass ratios aren't the problem, IMO.

                    Running more and play calling are not the problem, IMO.

                    Schemes are not the problem, IMO.

                    Coaches are not the problem, IMO.

                    IMO--- Both losses can be directly --- and in multiple ways --- be tied directly to player foul ups. And to say that they should have been coached better is weak. We all know that they are coached better, coached not to make the bone headed plays that we have seen.

                    It's great (easy) to throw the coaching staff (and hell I've seen it also be the entire FO) under the bus after any loss. It's lot's easier to blame them and schemes and plans and ratios---- then it is to blame the multi-million dollar players. Perhaps somehow we feel that it isn't personal that way, I dunno.

                    Sometimes the coaches do screw up, but IMO, their screw ups are minor in most cases and are not the usual reason that we lose games.

                    When I see screw ups, on a one on one basis, consistently as I have this year, I blame the players almost 100% of the time.

                    The coaches didn't run into Wynn and cause a muff (and it wasn't poor coaching) and give away 7 points.

                    The coaches didn't bite on that first move Horn made and gave up another 7 points to tie the game. (it wasn't poor coaching)

                    The coaches didn't cause the 12 men on the field penalty, thus allowing the Saints to kick the winning FG, it was one or 2 guys making a mistake, not poor coaching.

                    And that is just 3 things in one game that cost this team 17 points and a loss.

                    That's correct 17 of their 27 points were directly tied to player foul ups, not coaches mistakes, not run pass ratios, not schemes -- many fans look for "strawman arguments" when they analyze games. IMO, that's just wrong, this last loss was real easy to see that players made bone headed plays and it cost the Eagles 17 points.

                    The same thing could be done with the Vagiants game -- where all the major problems, leading to Giant points were caused by player failures not run/pass ratios or play calling or schemes!

                    Could they(schemes, play calls, ratios) be better? Sure!!

                    But in the big picture, the real world, the factual realization, an objective view they are not the things that caused those 2 losses.

                    "Keep your eye on the ball" is a great cliché/saying and it should apply to us football fans as well, IMO.


                    And BTW- FWIW---Sometimes the other team needs to get a little credit, many here seem to think that we play in a vacuum, that whatever the Eagles do and don't do is the only thing that produces the out come. There is another team of professionals out there playing very hard also.

                    End of my rant for today!

                    Ducks and heads for higher ground................

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      JRJ doesnt like to play with us any more, and that hurts my feelings. I feel like I'm being shunned........
                      http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        "They dink and dunk and run--exactly the thing our D is least designed to handle. Right? "

                        Unfortunately its been that way for years.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Fresh don't feel shunned!!

                          And I wasn't saying this board was over the top after the loss. It seemed like WIP, EMB, other boards I glance at from time to time, it was fire Reid, the young guys suck, ect. Too knee jerk.

                          Man I have just been real, real busy.

                          I only post here (when I can), so please I know you are kidding Fresh (I hope), but to newbies they may get the wrong impression.

                          I really haven't been able to break the games down from tapes like I used to either, no time. But I do catch a few things here and there.

                          On Sunday, the Saints went to much more spread formations than they normally use. I think they did it for 2 reasons: (1) to go against Hanson in passing situations, (2) to get Trotter more involved in coverage and not crashing downhill on runs. It worked.

                          On D, the Saints showed not alot of exotic blitz stuff so far this year. They broke tendency and sent some 6 and 7 man pressures and rolled the dice with their CB's against our young WR's. We had to make them pay. On the one throw, Baskett should have made the catch downfield, but it was a jump ball-he wasn't behind his man. Avant, Baskett and LJ IMO did a poor job of uncovering against tight man coverage. Finally in the second half, Reggie Brown made them pay.

                          Brees makes great decisions quickly and te ball is out 1-2-3 gone. Its tough to get pressure that way. I would hve blitzed to froce the issue--when he did have to move his feet he made errors and some of his only bad throws. He needed to be hit hard at least once in the first half. You can't let a QB get back and feel all cozy in the pocket. A real NFL QB will slice and dice you if you do.

                          Special teams blew the game IMO. Too many big returns, the Moats disaster, and more bad punts. Harbaugh is having a rough year. The Saints had great field position most of the game, the Birds did not (except off the turnover).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I was SORTA kidding, JRJ. We miss you around here. And I was worried if we have driven you off.
                            I'm glad that's not the case. I have always valued yor analysis.

                            As for the other part, remember this: All work and no play makes JRJ a dull boy

                            Nice to hear from ya.
                            http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Actually JRJ, I still think that inspite the last drive, the Special Teams were horrible in this game costing us perhaps the game itself, excluding Dirk's punting.

                              The kickoff coverage isn't what it used to be. Ackers puts the ball at the 2 yard line, it has to at most come out to the 20. Nothing more. The punt returns on our end, as well as the kickoff returns go nowhere. JR Reed or not, someone might want to return those well.

                              And truth be told, we go in the locker room down 7 instead of down 14, it's a totally different ball game.
                              "You will dress only in attire specially sanctioned by P.E. special services… You are no longer part of the system. You are above the system, over it, beyond it. We're "them." We're "they." We are the Men in Green."

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