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*UPDATED: Garrett Reid arrested again - NOW SENTENCED

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  • #31
    Re: *UPDATED: Garrett Reid arrested again - NOW SENTENCED

    Originally posted by Flying Dutchman
    Too many negative responses to address each one individually. I have no interest in trying to tripe that much. My point is simply that our once respected leader, has watched and condoned extreme drug abuse (he probably did not know about the drug sales and wrongly made no attempt to find out) in his own family and chose to blindly look away. At the same time he demands possibly the highest level of character and obedience from his players in the league. I find this dichotomy very hypocritical. The man has a private family and a professional family. He's very quick to censure one but is unable to censure the other, he is a hypocrite. I don't accept such a double standard.
    I still disagree that it makes him in a hypocrite. How do you know that he didn't "demand" the highest level of character and obedience from his sons? You can demand all you want from your kids. The fact is, you can't trade your kid to the Chiefs for a conditional 3rd round pick, if he doesn't comply with your demands. I can't believe you're actually comparing the two. There is no comparison. It's in no way apples-to-apples.

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    • #32
      Re: *UPDATED: Garrett Reid arrested again - NOW SENTENCED

      Wow, wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too many assumptions being floated around here.

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      • #33
        Re: *UPDATED: Garrett Reid arrested again - NOW SENTENCED

        Dutchie, I totally understand and agree with you that if Reid has lost the respect of his team then he will no longer be an effective coach and should be let go. I disagree that this is the situation that has/should cause him to be let go. I actually feel that it's almost certain that Andy DIDN'T know about the problem. As terrible as that is (and it really truly is awful) I have very little doubt that Andy was in the dark on this. The one thing that makes me feel this way is the suicide of Tony Dungy's son. When that happened it hit a lot of people very hard. I saw an interview with Reid when he mentioned how terrible he felt for Tony and his family. He said that he had reached out to Dungy and how he hoped and prayed for his family's well being. If Andy knew that his kids were into drugs at that time I think watching his friend go through this would have been enough to shake him into action to get his kids clean before they ended up dead as well. Andy is not someone to sit back and allow things to happen around him. He's a leader who takes charge and while it's possible that he turned a blind eye to things for a while, the death of Dungy's son would certainly have motivated him to protect his own family. Especially when considering how strong his faith is and the emphasis his religion places on family.
        Official Driver of the Eagles Bandwagon!!!
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        • #34
          Re: *UPDATED: Garrett Reid arrested again - NOW SENTENCED

          Wasn't the 'drug emporium' comment made in reply to Britt Reid saying that he took Oxycontin (or Vicodin?) while intending to take a nutritional supplement?

          IMO, Reid should not be forced out, despite what we may or may not think of him as a coach or parent. If he decides to step down though, he should be allowed to by Mr. Lurie. Perhaps he will take some sort of sabbatical, or just move upstairs in that instance. What a mess.

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          • #35
            Re: *UPDATED: Garrett Reid arrested again - NOW SENTENCED

            To be the head of a "drug emporium" for 6 years and not notice anything stretches the bounds of all credulity. To condone such behaviour by your inaction for years and then to demand from your players that they be above all reproach on and off the field is sheer hypocrisy. How can any of his players believe in and follow him as an honest, fair-minded leader? Not when he cuts his kids a gazillion breaks but his players none!

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            • #36
              Re: *UPDATED: Garrett Reid arrested again - NOW SENTENCED

              Originally posted by Flying Dutchman
              To be the head of a "drug emporium" for 6 years and not notice anything stretches the bounds of all credulity. To condone such behaviour by your inaction for years and then to demand from your players that they be above all reproach on and off the field is sheer hypocrisy. How can any of his players believe in and follow him as an honest, fair-minded leader? Not when he cuts his kids a gazillion breaks but his players none!
              I understand where you are coming from, and your point is valid; but IMO it is not as simple as that. Almost anything is in the realm of possibility, however incredible it may seem. Many details are unknown by us, and all any of us can do is guess. Did he condone it through inaction, or did he attempt to appeal to his teen (now adult) sons, only to have his words fall on deaf ears? It's a lot to think about. Trust that Mr. Reid IMO is doing a LOT of thinking right now, and some of the options that any of us might suggest have probably run through his mind 100 times since leaving court. I would say that he is conflicted. Not so much hypocritical. The judge, through his choice of words, may or may not be playing to the crowd (ESPN?) al la the judge in the Anna Nicole trial. Then again he could have felt just that strongly. I believe the drug emporium statement was in response to Britt Reid saying that while looking to take a nutritional supplement, he "mistakenly" took a drug. That certainly stretches credulity, but it is possible. The Reids bear responsibility though anyhow, at least for the time during which they were not of age. But ultimately the sons are responsible.

              Do you think he will walk away? What action would you prescribe? (Uh, poor choice of words.)

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              • #37
                Re: *UPDATED: Garrett Reid arrested again - NOW SENTENCED

                There is no double-standard on Reid's part, however, there are two conflicting environments. One is the Eagles in which he has supreme control over. He can use corporate policies and rules on personnel in addition to the threat of firing people. Unless someone wants to be fired, employees won't violate the rules.

                His family is a totally different story. Is he going to disown his kids? Is he going to shackle them in the house (which is what should be done)? He, like all of us, is extremely limited in his abilities to make his family be responsible for their actions. I have a 3 1/2 year old and he rarely listens to me, imagine what he'll be like at 15? In the Reids case the absolute extreme occurred. A judge said in no simple terms "You have no control over these boys, now its our turn."

                Now, the real question, how does all this affect the Cowboys gameplannning?

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                • #38
                  Re: *UPDATED: Garrett Reid arrested again - NOW SENTENCED

                  Originally posted by ThoughtProcess
                  Do you think he will walk away? What action would you prescribe? (Uh, poor choice of words.)
                  I think when Reid said that he would not walk away from the job, he knew that his boys were going away for a little while- the judge's decision just made it official.

                  I think the action were "prescribed" for him- they're in jail. Hell, one of them was even looking forward to it, he had drugs ready to be sold for crying out loud.

                  My suggestion for when they get out is to make sure they have their own places and start fending for themselves- including finding their own legal council.

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                  • #39
                    Re: *UPDATED: Garrett Reid arrested again - NOW SENTENCED

                    I think it is quite understandable for someone to be so involved in his work that he is oblivious to the circumstances in his own home. It happens all the time. I don't think it makes him a hypocrite. It just means that his focus was so narrow that he couldn't see all the things that were going on around him.

                    As a parent, I feel for Andy Reid. You really never know what is going on in your children's lives. You hope that by giving them some independence that you are preparing them for the future. You hope that you have given them a solid foundation (and I think that Reid probabl thought that Mormonism would help in providing that support) to enable them to overcome the pitfalls of life. Sometimes, things just don't work out the way that we plan or hope, and religious training has no effect.

                    I do believe that the troubles of his sons have affected the way that Andy has prepared for games this season. How could it not? He probably should have taken the year off to deal with these family issues, but, I don't believe that he should be fired. Reid has also given as much as he could to the team, and I believe that he will continue to do so. He is probably the best coach that the Eagles have had in the modern era.
                    "Nobody in football should be called a genius. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theismann



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                    • #40
                      Re: *UPDATED: Garrett Reid arrested again - NOW SENTENCED

                      stevemc: "Do you know what Mormons say about addiction? I can't say that I do but perhaps there is something behind them turning a blind eye to it."

                      Steve, they do not turn a blind eye. My sister-in-law has beaten her heroin addiction by joining the Latter Day Saints and she swears by the intense, constant support she received as she broke out from her long addiction


                      Jukin: " I actually feel that it's almost certain that Andy DIDN'T know about the problem. As terrible as that is (and it really truly is awful) I have very little doubt that Andy was in the dark on this."

                      Obviously, Reid was well aware of his sons' addiction and very involved in trying to stop it as evidenced by this tidbit from the Inky, "(Judge) O'Neill said that the family had struggled with Garrett Reid's addiction for years and that he had been in inpatient drug rehab facilities in Pennsylvania, California and Florida before the Jan. 30 accident."

                      Actually it is just this prior knowledge that fuels my disgust. Yesterday afternoon I listened to ESPN talking heads discuss how the police found a huge stash of illegal and prescription drugs in their house. Hell they were even discussing his legal culpability. I took it, perhaps mistakenly, to mean that they found all this stuff AGAIN at his house as they also did back in January. The repeated aspect of that being allowed to occur is outrageous if true. Now, I haven't yet been able to find any specific verification of this charge. There is only this comment again from the Inky, which I think is referring to the January arrest period, "During each sentencing the judge reviewed the drugs - some prescribed and some used illegally - that were found on Reid's sons. They included OxyContin, morphine, Vicodin, Adderall, Prozac, Valium, cocaine, marijuana, testosterone, heroin, Trileptal and Percocet. Also, Subutex and Suboxone, which are used to treat opiate withdrawal."

                      I should know better than to trust anything said on ESPN. Still knowing now, that Reid was completely aware of his kids addiction long before January and nonethless allowed them to stockpile such an array as listed above, still appalls me. I have lived in a gym world for 50+ years, an environment where steroids abound and I see that the main users are as we now know, 30 something guys just trying to get fit. I also lived much of my life overseas in countries where steroids were not/still are not, classified as dangerous drugs as they are here. I am accordingly, strongly opposed to their demonization. I would expect someone who is so tolerant and supportive of the outrageous addiction of his sons, to show more tolerance and support of his employees when they transgress something far less dangerous. I remain convinced that he dumped Wellbourn and Thomas (just before each was caught) because he knew of their problem with steroids. Likewise, but on a far lesser scale, making an example of a young man for making a dumb onfield mistake shows far less tolerance than I believe he has shown others. To me the balance in his actions/inactions is way out of whack and leads me to now question the man behind his whole control freak facade.

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                      • #41
                        Re: *UPDATED: Garrett Reid arrested again - NOW SENTENCED

                        FD - I'm going to continue to disagree. While you take Reid's knowledge of the addictions as an added black mark against him, I give him even more leniency. He tried on several occasions as you evidenced in the Inquirer to get his kids help at various facilities over the years. Then they also go on to say that Reid basically said "get clean or get out" on the day of these incidents. So the one approach did not work so he took the tough love approach. It looks to me as though he was more tolerant than he should have been and finally came to the realization that they need to help themselves before he could help them. Seems like tough love brought the issue to a head. We'll see how it works out. At the end of the day, I have sympathy for Andy while you are appallled. We're just at different ends of the spectrum.

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                        • #42
                          Re: *UPDATED: Garrett Reid arrested again - NOW SENTENCED

                          Originally posted by stevemc
                          FD - I'm going to continue to disagree. While you take Reid's knowledge of the addictions as an added black mark against him, I give him even more leniency. He tried on several occasions as you evidenced in the Inquirer to get his kids help at various facilities over the years. Then they also go on to say that Reid basically said "get clean or get out" on the day of these incidents. So the one approach did not work so he took the tough love approach. It looks to me as though he was more tolerant than he should have been and finally came to the realization that they need to help themselves before he could help them. Seems like tough love brought the issue to a head. We'll see how it works out. At the end of the day, I have sympathy for Andy while you are appallled. We're just at different ends of the spectrum.

                          Not exactly. I have sympathy for any parent in this predicament. I am appalled at how long he let it go on right under his nose without throwing the damn drugs out in the trash. I am further appalled at the amount of understanding and support for his sons but not for his players.

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                          • #43
                            Re: *UPDATED: Garrett Reid arrested again - NOW SENTENCED

                            This thread has a lot of far out in it IMM. As for the whole Welbourne/Thomas v children thing. Andy has a responsiblity to a multi-milliion dollar organization, a city, a owner, etc to do the right things in running it. Steroids are illegal whether or not one considers them more dangerous than other drugs or not. If, and I'll go with if, he sent them on their way solely for using steroids I'm guessing it is because of the sanctions that the team would receive when this was found out (sanctions being player suspensions or whatever else the league doles out). I don't think he would have sent them on their way because he felt using steroids was such a crime he couldn't have it in his locker room.
                            As for his family, he has a responsibilty to his wife/kids and no one else. Maybe to some extent people would say he has a responsibility to the public at large but that certainly is more ambiguous than say, his responsibility to the Eagles. If, as it appears, he knew of addiction problems I would say he (and really it should be they) made efforts to work on it by having him go through those earlier programs. He may very well have thought those programs worked since, as others have said, being a head coach means you spend a few hours a week at home and then go on a 4-5 week vacation with your family and then go back to work.
                            I am sure Andy realized the problems; whether he realized the extent is where the question comes in. I'm guessing he didn't realize the extent. Hopefully, they are able to resolve this demon someday.
                            Wait until next year is a terrible philosophy
                            Hope is not a strategy
                            RIP

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                            • #44
                              Re: *UPDATED: Garrett Reid arrested again - NOW SENTENCED

                              Originally posted by Flying Dutchman
                              I am further appalled at the amount of understanding and support for his sons but not for his players.

                              Maybe this is the disconnect we're having. Where is this double standard? Where is Reid showing a lack of support & understanding for his players? Welbourn? Hell - he wrote his own ticket out of town by mouthing off. Welbourn was the one that forced the Eagles into moving him. The only thing Reid didn't do was renegotiate his contract. Hollis Thomas? He wanted more $ from the Birds and they didn't feel the need to give it to him so they traded him. How is that a lack of support or understanding when they gave him what he wanted which was a new opportunity?

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                              • #45
                                Re: *UPDATED: Garrett Reid arrested again - NOW SENTENCED

                                I lived in the guest house of my parents in my early 20's and drank and partied and hid it from them like a magician. Happens all the time. I finally drove myself to a point where I was going to end up in big trouble financially and with addiction. My parents weren't bad parents - believe me. They are incredible people.

                                But a man gets to a point when he needs to be a man.

                                I had to pay the price for some of my actions (Gambling) etc. and I did. I had to work hard and be disciplined to get out of debt - stop drinking and turn my life around. I wasn't addicted to heroin but gambling and alcohol are pretty bad.

                                Garrett Reid is lost right now. He's lost and he's at a crossroads. This doesn't make Andy Reid a bad parent. It doesn't make him a drug emporium ring leader. (Can't stand these judges who think they are now the moral authority in this land - have him walk one day in Reid's shoes)

                                It makes him human. My mother and father would do things differently knowing what they know now but I was slick. After I got myself on track and later explained to them how things were - they had very little idea. Did that make that make their home an alcohol emporium??!?!

                                Andy Reid isn't God. He doesn't know all things. No parent does. You can only do so much.

                                That said. Garrett Reid should be kicked out of the house and made to work and be in an apartment. Cutoff his funding and get him to understand what responsibility looks like. He needs to serve jail time. He needs to wake up.

                                My prayers are that he does.

                                --------------

                                Finally - to say that running an NFL team and being a parent are the same thing is nuts. One is a job. Hollis Thomas and John Welbourn got paid to do what they do and with that comes a certain level of professionalism inherent to what they do. Period. Andy Reid has standards as a COACH. He's not perfect with that either. Dude can't even make in game changes!

                                But as a father - he is going through this life for the first and only time. Do you think he became the world's greatest man and father because he won the NFC EAST 5 times in his career? What? He's human. This is his oldest son. Better believe he's learning.

                                I've heard that Reid is a good man. He's a good father and a good person. I don't think his standards are "My kids can take heroin and pop pills and I'm going to provide a safe haven for that." I just don't.

                                If he did - then he'd be a hypocrite. But that's far fetched IMO.
                                Carson Wentz ERA


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