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Hey Football geeks!! - (Halladay update)
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Originally posted by BIGPHILLY View PostI hate this deal unless we also get Morrow from Seattle. Lee, Happ, Taylor etc. for Halladay? C'mon.
If you want to combine deals its:
Lee / Drabek / Taylor / D'Arnaud
For
Halladay / Gillies(OF) / Aumont(P) / Ramirez(P)
You can argue which package you think is better, but no one is going to know for atleast 5 seasons.
It comes down to money - They must feel pretty confident they can not / will not sign Lee to the type of extension that Halladay will agree to, so how can you assure you are going to have an ace for the next 3 seasons? Make this deal and get Roy.
You are not only getting Halladay, but also replenishing your farm system. Now apparrently the Phils guys "rate" or "grade" higher depend on what you read, BUT they are getting back pretty good prospects (allegedly) from Seattle who have just as much chance to make a difference as Drabek.
I love LEE, but you cant be upset in losing him because of what he did in the postseason alone and project that into next year - how is that 2009 hamels working out for you?
My complaint would be, I want to go into the season with Lee AND Halladay - but someone must have nixed that, and I can only assume it has to do with Payroll and in that sense Ruben should be held accountable for some of his contracts given out.
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I see the logic and believe that having Halladay at the top of the rotation for tnext 4-5 years is a great thing.
That said - if you are giving up Drabek, we should be keeping Lee. To be giving up Lee/Drabek is steep.
The reports I've read on the 3 Mariner prospects are lukewarm.
And I'm with you. The team just sold out the entire season plus the maximum number of postseason games - and they are clenching their fists on keeping Lee for another year?Carson Wentz ERA
NFC East Titles:
Playoff Appearances:
NFC Title Games:
Super Bowl Titles:
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I freaking hate this trade as it is now being reported.
Drabek and Taylor and d'Arnaud to Toronto, for Halladay and 6m? Come on, that's what the Jays wanted last summer -- Halladay's value is lower now. I respect that his value increases when the trading team gives the acquirer a window to sign the prime target, but it's still way too much, IMO. Happ and Taylor should be plenty -- the Phillies have the leverage here.
And some lower tier SEA prospects (not as good as Drabek and Taylor, certainly), so we can get rid of Lee's 9m? Shoot, Lee is a bargain this year at 9m, even if you let him walk at the end of the year. Then you get two draft picks. Why take some of these SEA guys, who aren't even their top prospects? At least get Saunders and that middle infielder.
As much as I love getting Halladay for four years or so, this feels like a salary dump. They're sending extra value to TOR to get that 6m back. And they're dumping a GREAT pitcher in Lee who is signed for a bargain amount this year just to get that 9m off the books. Voila! There's the 15 plus million the Phils need to pay Halladay this year!
I'm really hating the Jamie Moyer contract more every day. No stupid two year deal for Moyer and that's 9m they dont have to worry about. Then you just dump Blanton and you've got the money you need for Halladay.
I will hate it less if Happ goes to TOR instead of Drabek.Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!
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Originally posted by 12dickau4pres View PostI am going to try to defend the deal, with what we assume now, only because I dont feel like being negative;
If you want to combine deals its:
Lee / Drabek / Taylor / D'Arnaud
For
Halladay / Gillies(OF) / Aumont(P) / Ramirez(P)
You can argue which package you think is better, but no one is going to know for atleast 5 seasons.
It comes down to money - They must feel pretty confident they can not / will not sign Lee to the type of extension that Halladay will agree to, so how can you assure you are going to have an ace for the next 3 seasons? Make this deal and get Roy.
You are not only getting Halladay, but also replenishing your farm system. Now apparrently the Phils guys "rate" or "grade" higher depend on what you read, BUT they are getting back pretty good prospects (allegedly) from Seattle who have just as much chance to make a difference as Drabek.
I love LEE, but you cant be upset in losing him because of what he did in the postseason alone and project that into next year - how is that 2009 hamels working out for you?
My complaint would be, I want to go into the season with Lee AND Halladay - but someone must have nixed that, and I can only assume it has to do with Payroll and in that sense Ruben should be held accountable for some of his contracts given out.
You're not replenishing the farm system. Drabek and Taylor are probably Top 30 prospects in the entire league. They are two of our top 3 guys in the entire system.
The guys coming from SEA are lower tier prospects in their system, they are not the elite guys.
Plus, you are losing out on possibility of two top draft picks for losing Lee in free agency next year.Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!
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Originally posted by BIGPHILLY View PostI see the logic and believe that having Halladay at the top of the rotation for tnext 4-5 years is a great thing.
That said - if you are giving up Drabek, we should be keeping Lee. To be giving up Lee/Drabek is steep.
The reports I've read on the 3 Mariner prospects are lukewarm.
And I'm with you. The team just sold out the entire season plus the maximum number of postseason games - and they are clenching their fists on keeping Lee for another year?
Despite the popular talk of the Phils becoming an 'empire' and despite the financial rewards driven directly by their success on the field, I'm reminded that they're are owned by the Phantom Five, who have a well established reputation for being both low profile (Dave Montgomery is just a front man) and cheap.
The Phillies certainly do not have either the enormous earning power or deep pockets of the Yankees, but it's my understanding that they've had a very BLACK bottom line recently and could well afford to expand the payroll and still make a decent profit.
If they've given up both Drabek and Taylor along with Lee for Halladay and some less stellar prospects, I'll be unhappy. Drabek OR Taylor maybe...but not both.
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I could be wrong, but the Moyer deal just sticks in my craw. His $8 million may have helped this whole deal go down different.
Losing Drabek really sucks.
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Originally posted by saratoga View PostI could be wrong, but the Moyer deal just sticks in my craw. His $8 million may have helped this whole deal go down different.
Losing Drabek really sucks.
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Alright, here we go...
Originally posted by Leonard Tose View PostI freaking hate this trade as it is now being reported.
Drabek and Taylor and d'Arnaud to Toronto, for Halladay and 6m? Come on, that's what the Jays wanted last summer -- Halladay's value is lower now. I respect that his value increases when the trading team gives the acquirer a window to sign the prime target, but it's still way too much, IMO. Happ and Taylor should be plenty -- the Phillies have the leverage here.
Originally posted by Leonard Tose View PostAnd some lower tier SEA prospects (not as good as Drabek and Taylor, certainly), so we can get rid of Lee's 9m? Shoot, Lee is a bargain this year at 9m, even if you let him walk at the end of the year. Then you get two draft picks. Why take some of these SEA guys, who aren't even their top prospects? At least get Saunders and that middle infielder.
Originally posted by Leonard Tose View PostAs much as I love getting Halladay for four years or so, this feels like a salary dump. They're sending extra value to TOR to get that 6m back. And they're dumping a GREAT pitcher in Lee who is signed for a bargain amount this year just to get that 9m off the books. Voila! There's the 15 plus million the Phils need to pay Halladay this year!
Originally posted by Leonard Tose View PostI'm really hating the Jamie Moyer contract more every day. No stupid two year deal for Moyer and that's 9m they dont have to worry about. Then you just dump Blanton and you've got the money you need for Halladay.
I will hate it less if Happ goes to TOR instead of Drabek.
Originally posted by Leonard Tose View PostYou're not replenishing the farm system. Drabek and Taylor are probably Top 30 prospects in the entire league. They are two of our top 3 guys in the entire system.
The guys coming from SEA are lower tier prospects in their system, they are not the elite guys.
Plus, you are losing out on possibility of two top draft picks for losing Lee in free agency next year.
Depending on what you read, Stark said this morning they are Seattles top prospects, maybe they are not as ML ready, but maybe in two years they are.
I think you are more concerned with Lee for a season, than you are geting the two draft picks. (as am I) I have no idea how the draft system works, its not like the NFL/NBA, but what is the difference between getting two picks and getting the Seattle guys?
Originally posted by saratoga View PostI could be wrong, but the Moyer deal just sticks in my craw. His $8 million may have helped this whole deal go down different.
Losing Drabek really sucks.
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