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  • #16
    [quote=Leonard Tose][quote="Vote for Kalas":037cb]
    Originally posted by "Leonard Tose":037cb
    against two rugged divisional opponents, the running game was total shite. against three softies, it was pretty good.
    In the Giants game, Eagles rushed for 107 yards and 1 TD on 30 carries/attempts...

    That is hardly shite...

    Against Dallas, we were held to 50 yards rushing on 18 attempts, but scored 2 TD...again hardly shite IMO...

    We are not terrible running the ball.[/quote:037cb]


    it was shite against the Giants. they coughed up a big lead because they couldnt run the ball in the second half.

    and you can't be serious about dallas. there was maybe one decent run all day, i recall a 12-yard burst by bucky. and that was it.

    Are the Eagles terrible at running the ball? No, probably not. Does Big Red have the will to establish a credible running game on any given Sunday. Very rarely.[/quote:037cb]

    How is 107 yards on 30 attempts and 1 TD NOT credible?? How are 2 TD on the ground not credible in the Dallas game? Are they somehow worth less?

    What is your expectation or masuring factor? How are those results shite? How do they reflect on Andy's "will"? Please, I need some evidence.

    C'mon now...we coughed up a lead because we could not run the ball in the 2nd half?

    First drive in the 3rd quarter, we score a TD on the strength of 5 rushes out of 7 plays...did pretty well there.

    I also looked at the play-by-play stats of that game and focused on the 2nd half...guess what? Out of 32 offensive plays we had in the 2nd half, we ran the ball 17 times...that is over 50% of the plays. See the game log here.

    Looks like Reid was focused on running the ball even when it was not working as well...IMO he should have passed more and been more aggressive to put more points on the board. It is hard for teams to come back when we keep adding on. So, all I can say is that Reid gets some blame for sticking with the run too much in the 2nd half IMO when it lost some of its effectiveness and the Giants focused on stopping it.

    Combine that with poor execution in the passing game and bad defense and the come back occurred...It was hardly because of solely the running game IMO...it was a team effort unfortunately...
    Eliminate distractions, create energy, fear nothing, and attack everything.

    -Andy Reid

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    • #17
      [quote=Eaglebreath][quote=Leonard Tose]
      Originally posted by "Vote for Kalas":c00b1
      Originally posted by "Leonard Tose":c00b1
      against two rugged divisional opponents, the running game was total shite. against three softies, it was pretty good.
      In the Giants game, Eagles rushed for 107 yards and 1 TD on 30 carries/attempts...

      That is hardly shite...

      Against Dallas, we were held to 50 yards rushing on 18 attempts, but scored 2 TD...again hardly shite IMO...

      We are not terrible running the ball.

      it was shite against the Giants. they coughed up a big lead because they couldnt run the ball in the second half.

      and you can't be serious about dallas. there was maybe one decent run all day, i recall a 12-yard burst by bucky. and that was it.

      Are the Eagles terrible at running the ball? No, probably not. Does Big Red have the will to establish a credible running game on any given Sunday. Very rarely.[/quote:c00b1]

      Totally agree with Leonard. The Eagles are having difficulty salting these games away, because they can't run the football well enough to burn the clock. They couldn't run the ball in the second half against the Giants. If they could have, no way do they lose that game. They couldn't run it against the Cowboys either. Hell, Reid doesn't even trust his ground game enough to get a half a yard on 3rd or 4th down. This inability to run and control some clock has already burned us once, I hope it doesn't burn us in the playoffs.

      And Vote, for God's sake, I know you are about as pro-Eagles as one can get, but if you think the Eagles are good at rushing the football, you are definitely in a distinct minority.[/quote:c00b1]

      EB, that would be fine, but we actually have objective metrics to measure the Eagles ability to run the ball and they are ranked 6th in the NFC with 7 rushing TD and an average of about 114 yards per game....

      That is reality...whether you choose to accept it as such or not is another topic....I cannot force you to...

      Again, this has very little to do with me being "pro-Eagles"...in fact I am not sure what that ever has to do with these discussions...but it always seems to come up for whatever reason...
      Eliminate distractions, create energy, fear nothing, and attack everything.

      -Andy Reid

      Comment


      • #18
        [quote=Vote for Kalas][quote="Leonard Tose":febe4][quote="Vote for Kalas":febe4]
        Originally posted by "Leonard Tose":febe4
        against two rugged divisional opponents, the running game was total shite. against three softies, it was pretty good.
        In the Giants game, Eagles rushed for 107 yards and 1 TD on 30 carries/attempts...

        That is hardly shite...

        Against Dallas, we were held to 50 yards rushing on 18 attempts, but scored 2 TD...again hardly shite IMO...

        We are not terrible running the ball.[/quote:febe4]


        it was shite against the Giants. they coughed up a big lead because they couldnt run the ball in the second half.

        and you can't be serious about dallas. there was maybe one decent run all day, i recall a 12-yard burst by bucky. and that was it.

        Are the Eagles terrible at running the ball? No, probably not. Does Big Red have the will to establish a credible running game on any given Sunday. Very rarely.[/quote:febe4]

        How is 107 yards on 30 attempts and 1 TD NOT credible?? How are 2 TD on the ground not credible in the Dallas game? Are they somehow worth less?

        What is your expectation or masuring factor? How are those results shite? How do they reflect on Andy's "will"? Please, I need some evidence.

        C'mon now...we coughed up a lead because we could not run the ball in the 2nd half?

        First drive in the 3rd quarter, we score a TD on the strength of 5 rushes out of 7 plays...did pretty well there.

        I also looked at the play-by-play stats of that game and focused on the 2nd half...guess what? Out of 32 offensive plays we had in the 2nd half, we ran the ball 17 times...that is over 50% of the plays. See the game log here.

        Looks like Reid was focused on running the ball even when it was not working as well...IMO he should have passed more and been more aggressive to put more points on the board. It is hard for teams to come back when we keep adding on. So, all I can say is that Reid gets some blame for sticking with the run too much in the 2nd half IMO when it lost some of its effectiveness and the Giants focused on stopping it.

        Combine that with poor execution in the passing game and bad defense and the come back occurred...It was hardly because of solely the running game IMO...it was a team effort unfortunately...[/quote:febe4]


        The game log is useful, VFK. Let's break it down a little further than me just saying "second half." Because the Eagles did run the ball in the opening drive in the second half and scored to take a 24-7 lead.

        With 7:40 to play in the 3rd, the Eagles got the ball, still up 24-7. From there, they ran 29 more offensive plays (including punts, but not penalties).

        They punted four times.
        They passed it 12 times. McNabb was 7-12 for 62 yards.
        He was sacked once, for a loss of 6 yards.
        They rushed it 12 times for 19 yards, plus a fumble.
        They didn't get a single first down that could be credited to the run game.
        They went for it on 4th and less than one at the Giant 38 and sent Bucky into the line for no gain.

        Yeah, the Giants were loading up the box and looking to shut the run down. Maybe they should have thrown it more. But it's a failure nonetheless. It's critical at that point in the game to get some rushing first downs to keep the clock moving.

        IMO, you can't gloss over this abject failure by saying "overall, they rushed for 107 yards." It's still a failure.
        Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

        Comment


        • #19
          Totally agree with Leonard, once again.

          This team may have put up some nice statistics for you to post, Vote, but, the bottom line is that when they need to run, like late in Giants game as a perfect example, they have failed to do so.

          The inability to pound it in the 4th quarter, and put these game away is a major concern. The Giants should never have gotten back in that game. The 9ers were in the process when Gore fumbled at the goal line. And, the Cowboys were in the redzone with a half minute left, situated to put the game into OT, which could have been a disaster. Don't show me stats. Show me the ability to run the f'ing football when you need to run it. Something they have not shown.

          I hate to go down this road. I really do. McNabb is having a tremendous season, and our passing game is tops in the league. But, they can't run in crunch time. Not being able to do so creates problems. Major problems.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Vote for Kalas
            Looks like Reid was focused on running the ball even when it was not working as well...IMO he should have passed more and been more aggressive to put more points on the board. It is hard for teams to come back when we keep adding on. So, all I can say is that Reid gets some blame for sticking with the run too much in the 2nd half IMO when it lost some of its effectiveness and the Giants focused on stopping it.

            Combine that with poor execution in the passing game and bad defense and the come back occurred...It was hardly because of solely the running game IMO...it was a team effort unfortunately...
            Thank you. The Eagles never should have stopped passing. When you move away from your strength you will lose. That's exactly what happened in the Giant game.

            I get so sick of hearing the recycled garbage about running the ball at the end of the game.
            FRESH > cancer

            I hate everything the Cowboys stand for. If you think they are America's team, then you support everything that is wrong with America. The excess, the greed, the lack of maturity, the lack of responsibility, the lack of control. - Luzinski's Gut

            Comment


            • #21
              Our 3d down conversion rate sucks. You can poo poo the running game for right now, but come Jan you'll be damn glad when the Eagles can punch out a 3d and two without having to throw the ball 8 yards and a coin flip to convert. You enjoy those 3rd and inches pass plays? I don't. I like the quick strike O, but there are points where you have to be able to grind up a D too.
              Redskins Suck Ass

              Comment


              • #22
                Blitz, so, what you are doing is admitting the running game is a weakness.

                I agree.

                The fact of the matter is that every run, even one with no gain will run 45 seconds off the clock. An incomplete pass will run less than 10. 3 incomplete passes will run less time off the clock than one run for no gain.

                Just because the Eagles aren't good at it doesn't mean that running the football to protect a lead isn't important. It is.

                Comment


                • #23
                  I love the Eagle passing game and the quick-strike ability of the offense. I accept they're going to throw it more than they run it, and agree that their best chance of success is to put the ball in McNabb's hands.

                  I'd just like to see them a bit more two-dimensional. It would make this offense even more difficult to stop, IMHO. When the weather gets cold, they're going to need to run it.
                  Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Eaglebreath
                    This team may have put up some nice statistics for you to post, Vote, but, the bottom line is that when they need to run, like late in Giants game as a perfect example, they have failed to do so.
                    Exactly stats can be used to prove anything, that's why I try to avoid using them in arguments as much as possible. It's not about how mnay yards they got, it's how effective they were atrunning.


                    If a player ran for 102 yards on 20 carries that might be considered a good game just by looking it it (over 5 yards per carry). But what if I then told you 83 of those yards came on a single carry. That means for those other 19 carries you only average 1 yard per carry, not to spectacular eh?
                    Whatcha Gonna Do Brother, When the Eagles run wild on you?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      "One" of the main reasons the Giants GOT back in that game was the fumble in the run game!!!!!!!!

                      So much energy worrying about run vs pass and blah blah blah,, the bottom line, as always, is execution of whatever is called.

                      Bucky has fumbled (with #5's help) 2 times and cost us points.

                      It isn't pass or run-- it's execution.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by MDFAN
                        "One" of the main reasons the Giants GOT back in that game was the fumble in the run game!!!!!!!!

                        So much energy worrying about run vs pass and blah blah blah,, the bottom line, as always, is execution of whatever is called.

                        Bucky has fumbled (with #5's help) 2 times and cost us points.

                        It isn't pass or run-- it's execution.
                        Yes, execution is key, however if the defense knows what's coming it makes it much harder to execute. Against lesser teams our talent can overcome but when we run into teams with superior talent (NE 2004, PIT 2004) you need to resort to some creative playcalling in order to keep moving those chains.
                        Whatcha Gonna Do Brother, When the Eagles run wild on you?

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Eaglebreath
                          Totally agree with Leonard, once again.

                          This team may have put up some nice statistics for you to post, Vote, but, the bottom line is that when they need to run, like late in Giants game as a perfect example, they have failed to do so.

                          The inability to pound it in the 4th quarter, and put these game away is a major concern. The Giants should never have gotten back in that game. The 9ers were in the process when Gore fumbled at the goal line. And, the Cowboys were in the redzone with a half minute left, situated to put the game into OT, which could have been a disaster. Don't show me stats. Show me the ability to run the f'ing football when you need to run it. Something they have not shown.

                          I hate to go down this road. I really do. McNabb is having a tremendous season, and our passing game is tops in the league. But, they can't run in crunch time. Not being able to do so creates problems. Major problems.
                          Please....

                          Is the defense somehow immune to criticism? Is it really all the fault of the running game on offense?

                          No, Lewis got burnt on the 4th and 18 play that gave the Cowboys a chance to tie it....they had NO chance before that...none. It was 4th and 18 for goodness sake...

                          The defense collapsed in the Giants game...they should be held accountable just like you are the offense IMO...

                          The 49ers were no where close to coming back...c'mon that is a joke. Nearly everyone on this board stated they did much better in the 49ers game of continuing to build the lead and playing better defense when it counted...

                          The run game is definitely not as efficient as the pass game for the Eagles...but it is hardly a weakness and has not caused "major problems" for the team so far IMO...they are 4-1 and have the #1 offense in the league...where are these major problems??

                          I agree it would be nice if the Eagles executed at a high level all the time and if they were excellent in every facet of the game, but that is an unrealistic expectation IMO and negates again that this is a team game...of course they need to be better and continue to strive to improve all their skills, but I will refuse to cry until there is actually some spilled milk...

                          I do not care how they win as long as they win...execution is the top issue, play calling next and then personnel IMO...we have the right players to win, we make most of the right play calls and we are executing at a pretty good level right now...but the last two constantly need tweaking, as is true for every team, depending on the context of each individual game...
                          Eliminate distractions, create energy, fear nothing, and attack everything.

                          -Andy Reid

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I'm only really concerned about the short yardage rushing game to be honest. I just think that having to kick the ball after failing on a 3d and inches pass play is an insult to the OL. You have to be able to grind out a yard when you need it. the Falcons have lead the NFL in rushing forever and they still suck, so raw rushing yards and TOP will never replace points on the board.
                            Redskins Suck Ass

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