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OT: Thoughts and Prayers for the people in Connecticut

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  • #31
    https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...afety/4PYM8xrD
    You know Darren if you'd have told me 10 years ago that someday I was going to solve the world's energy problems I'd have said your crazy.... now lets drop this big ball of oil out the window.

    Comment


    • #32
      "Pepper spray could've been used at several of the recent public mass shootings to quickly neutralize the assailant and limit the loss of life. "

      assailant buys $10 goggles.

      Comment


      • #33
        SF... Luv u but check your math. The good stuff takes down anyone including crazy dudes wearing glasses. It burns the skin and when inhaled takes the person down.
        You know Darren if you'd have told me 10 years ago that someday I was going to solve the world's energy problems I'd have said your crazy.... now lets drop this big ball of oil out the window.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by andrewaters View Post
          Guys, I caught a case of the flu yesterday and was in bed all day watching as the awful details unfolded. No we cannot imagine what the families are going through and will cope with for the rest of their lives. As the father of a 4 year old and a 16 month old, it is too horrible to imagine so I'm not going to put myself in that position.

          As for a gun control discussion, I will go there.

          They have very strict gun control laws in Norway. Did that keep that crazy guy from killing nearly hundred kids on that island a few years ago. No.

          We have very strict laws regarding drugs and child pornography in this country, yet disturbed people and addicts manage to find ways to get their hands on both of those things.

          Gun control laws only take guns away from the people that in most instances are sane enough and responsible enough to use them correctly.

          Locking the school down with metal detectors and advanced door locks wouldn't have prevented this. The crazy kid shot out a window and got in that way.

          But what if in this school of 700 a few teachers that are experienced gun owners would volunteer to be part of an armed militia. Every year, they spend a week at a gun camp where they are analyzed over and over again to make sure they are not crazy. They practice in real live scenarios such as this one in taking the assailant down.

          I will GUARANTEE you that there are teachers in that school that would participate in that program. Not because they want to be Dirty Harry but because they are willing to step up and protect the lives of others.

          Heck, pay them if you want. Every person that is in the national militia program gets $2500 annual to keep up on training...both gun related and mental training.

          If one of those teachers would've had access to a gun and were willing they could've prevented much of this slaughter. Same can be said of what happened at Va. Tech or at the movie theater in Colorado.

          One of the primary reasons that these things happen is there is no fear on the part of the assailant. They see no line crossed because there is no one standing at the line defending the innocent.

          Now all gun control advocates can start in with the statistics about how legal gun owners are more likely to kill themselves or a loved one. What the fuck ever. Those stats are meaningless and are a crutch for the anti-gun lobby.

          Ask yourself this...why after 9-11 did the NTSB decide air marshalls with guns on flights was a good thing...because guns in the right hands keep people safe. Why do cops and security officers carry guns...because guns in the right hands keep people safe. Why would a nationally regulated, trained, and compensated team of civilians routinely trained and evaluated armed with hands guns ready to bring justice to these bastards quickly work...because guns in the right hands keep people safe.

          Guns in the wrong hands kill innocent kids.

          Again, I realize I'm going to get slammed in this thread here so have at me. But - and again I say this with the utmost respect and heartfelt sympathy for the parents of these children - if you were to ask the parents today if they would've been OK with several of the teachers in that school to be armed with guns to protect their kids from crazies like this. There would be a resounding yes.

          The illusion that this will never happen in your school, your mall, your town, keeps people from believing a program like the one I've mentioned above would be beneficial but when it happens in your town your opinion changes.

          Lastly, and again not to offend, but I have ZERO sympathy for the family of this psycho. The mother had 4 registered guns and her kid had behavioral issues. The brother admitted he hadn't spoken to his brother since 2010. The father lives an hour away. In a sense, it appears the family let this kid roam at his own will. I guarantee you that as they peel back the layers on this wacko there will be numerous red flags. Why type of older brother doesn't talk to his younger brother for two years? The type that doesn't want to be bothered by him because he knows he is off his rocker.

          Lastly part two I will say, I don't own a handgun. I own a shotgun. I'm not a hunter nor a member of the NRA. I may someday purchase a handgun and you can bet if I would everyone in my family, including my daughters would know how to operate it with respect.

          GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE. PSYCHOS KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE.

          And you can bet your ass that if I would have been in that school with a gun I would have had no problem in wasting that kid. So would probably every other teacher and adult in the building.

          Its time to stand up and say enough and arm the right people with the right weapon to stop these bastards in their tracks and send them to hell where they belong.

          Guns kill people. Don't give me the Norway incident, that's a red herring. In other civilized countries where there are strict gun control laws, THESE THINGS DONT HAPPEN.

          And please, arming teachers. For Christ's sake. Why don't we hand out Glocks to the elementary school kids as well?
          Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by andrewaters View Post
            Juk. I agree cops and/or retired cops would be better. But who would pay for it? Would they be volunteers like crossing guards?

            Please everyone understand i know this is not the time to debate this truly... But when is the time?

            Something HAS to be done and fewer guns is not the answer. If this crazy didn't have a gun, would he have built 10 homemade pipe bombs and booby trapped the school. Would he have hung out in the bathroom and quietly killed second graders as they walked in until he was caught?

            Guys i really don't want to come off as a crazy myself but the wackjobs are gonna kill. Only an armed person can stop them.

            You're out of your fucking mind, AW, with all due respect. How about we start by not handing out guns like candy to anybody who wants one? How about banning assault weapons? What possible use does anyone in our society who is not in law enforcement or in the military have for an assault weapon?
            Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by andrewaters View Post
              SF... Luv u but check your math. The good stuff takes down anyone including crazy dudes wearing glasses. It burns the skin and when inhaled takes the person down.

              A guy who can buy guns can buy a full face helmet / mask. I don't have enough info on the CT shooter but anyone crazy enough to plot a shooting spree like the dude in Colorado can also figure out how to counter pepper spray. It might stop the spur of the moment type killers but not the crazy plotters.

              I'm not gonna get into this gun debate but I don't understand the need for assault weapons at all in the general public. How can anyone in their right mind argue that we NEED assault weapons, whether you're pro-gun or not. If you're hunting wild animals with an assault weapon, you're a tool.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by sfphillyfan View Post
                I'm not gonna get into this gun debate but I don't understand the need for assault weapons at all in the general public. How can anyone in their right mind argue that we NEED assault weapons, whether you're pro-gun or not. If you're hunting wild animals with an assault weapon, you're a tool.
                Exactly. NO one NEEDS an assault rifle, outside the police & military. When the "right to bear arms" was conceived, it took 3 minutes to reload your musket; no one had guns that sprayed 100 rounds per minute.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by FearTheDawk View Post
                  Exactly. NO one NEEDS an assault rifle, outside the police & military. When the "right to bear arms" was conceived, it took 3 minutes to reload your musket; no one had guns that sprayed 100 rounds per minute.
                  FTD,

                  I take a somewhat different view. I think the wise men who wrote the 'Bill of Rights', which includes the 2nd amendment, anticipated the dangers that might well exist in the future and envisioned a need for the average American to 'keep and bear arms" similar to this little dandy:





                  This is a 155MM self propelled howitzer. Positioned in a suburbanites front yard, these babies send the unmistakable message to uninvited burglars, Jehovah's Witnesses and overzealous Girl Scout Cookie pushers....'Try not to bother me!'

                  Talk about stopping power! If the 43 kilogram explosive projectile from the main gun seems a bit excessive on a quiet Sunday, you've always got the 50 caliber machine gun mounted on top.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I agree about there being no need for assualt rifles in the public realm. But it's a slippery slope when you start dissecting what is OK and what isn't. Certainly fully automatic weapons are not permitted.

                    Regardless, I have often talked about personal accountability. It applies here as well. More people die from alcohol every year than guns in this country, but I don't see anyone here running around trying to ban Jim Beam. That's because we expect people to use their own good sense, and be responsible with their alcohol. Well,........OK, perhaps I am an idiot for expecting people to be personaly responsible for ANYTHING in this country any more?
                    http://shop.cafepress.com/content/global/img/spacer.gifOK, let's try this again...

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I have a great idea.

                      Let's all bicker amongst ourselves then, try and push forward a political agenda based on a tragedy, bicker some more, get special interests and their money involved, eventually forget about it, and do nothing.

                      That's what both sides seem to do with tragedies such as these.

                      And then when another tragedy like this happens we can start the process all over again.
                      You know Darren if you'd have told me 10 years ago that someday I was going to solve the world's energy problems I'd have said your crazy.... now lets drop this big ball of oil out the window.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        SF... I totally hear what you are saying but come up with a better idea then.

                        As we can plainly see here by LTs response, the anti-gun lobby will never allow schools to completely protect themselves with guns. Tazers might be a good substitute but it is my understanding that they are much more difficult to use, require training...there are a lot of holes with Tazers. I'd be willing to bet my house that if you asked the parents of these 20 children if pepper spray would be acceptable in schools, even if this maniac was prepared for such a defense, they'd say absolutely. It's something. It's better than nothing, which is what these schools have now.

                        We can debate gun control all we want and LT you can claim I'm out of my f'ing mind all you want also but the bottom line is anything can be made into a weapon. If someone wants to commit such an act they are going to find a way to do it, if they use a legally purchased weapon, and illegal one, a pipe bomb made with stuff they find in the garage, or fertilizer.

                        I agree automatic rifles should be banned. So should hollow points. So should armor piercing bullets and those extra long magazines for handguns. But - and I say this will all due respect especially to LT - the left can GO FUCK THEMSELVES when it comes to taking handguns away. That includes you LT and you can take that as an insult if you want because clearly in your earlier thread you didn't care if you insulted me. Handguns in the right hands protect people from harm. LT, you not being able to see that is because you are blinded by what appears to be an agenda. Illegal guns to commit crime will still be readily available, even if you don't let any companies in this country make them. They will just be made in Mexico and marched across like drugs by the cartels, made available to bad guys not good guys.

                        I will tell you this, if D.C. tries to ban guns you watch what happens then. There will be states that will tell the federal government to F off.

                        Make it harder to get guns..no problem. Limit what these guns can do. No problem. But banning them all together will cause a shit storm that this country will not be able to withstand.

                        Now, if someone wants to push for me to be banned from the board for confronting LT go right ahead but LT you come off sometimes like an internet bully that is willing to say things via a keyboard that you'd never say to someones face. I appreciate your Eagles commentary but that is where it ends for me.

                        Offer a solution that has a chance to actually be agreed upon and then enter the debate.
                        You know Darren if you'd have told me 10 years ago that someday I was going to solve the world's energy problems I'd have said your crazy.... now lets drop this big ball of oil out the window.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          The problem is that politicians want to turn this into an all or nothing thing when the majority of sane rational americans (I think) think that people should have a right to bear arms: handguns for personal protection and guns for hunting. Ban everything that's semi or fully automatic. Ban hollow points. Ban anything that allows someone to shoot and kill large groups of people quickly. If the NRA thinks people have a right to assault weapons then fuck em. I'll take the safety of children and citizens over the ability of shitty hunters to spray bullets at a bunch of deer. That's not sport. Learn to fucking hunt for real.

                          If the politicians who get their money from the NRA and gun lobbyists think that having assault weapons is a basic american right and keep voting down bills, then they need to get the f out.

                          We need some goddamn common sense in this country instead of playing to the money. How many more 6 year old kids have to die before people wake the fuck up. Do the politicians (on either side) and media moguls have to be personally affected by something like this before they get that mass killings aren't an OPPORTUNITY to pad their bank accounts?

                          I'm disgusted by this whole thing. I'm disgusted by the media's complete lack of journalism ethics. I'm disgusted by "reporters" interviewing 6 year olds who have no idea how to even process being in school where their classmates were killed. I'm disgusted by the idiot sheep out there who eat up the 24 hour news cycle. I'm disgusted by the advertisers who pay money to advertise detergent and Viagra during these events.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by andrewaters View Post
                            SF... I totally hear what you are saying but come up with a better idea then.

                            As we can plainly see here by LTs response, the anti-gun lobby will never allow schools to completely protect themselves with guns. Tazers might be a good substitute but it is my understanding that they are much more difficult to use, require training...there are a lot of holes with Tazers. I'd be willing to bet my house that if you asked the parents of these 20 children if pepper spray would be acceptable in schools, even if this maniac was prepared for such a defense, they'd say absolutely. It's something. It's better than nothing, which is what these schools have now.

                            We can debate gun control all we want and LT you can claim I'm out of my f'ing mind all you want also but the bottom line is anything can be made into a weapon. If someone wants to commit such an act they are going to find a way to do it, if they use a legally purchased weapon, and illegal one, a pipe bomb made with stuff they find in the garage, or fertilizer.

                            I agree automatic rifles should be banned. So should hollow points. So should armor piercing bullets and those extra long magazines for handguns. But - and I say this will all due respect especially to LT - the left can GO FUCK THEMSELVES when it comes to taking handguns away. That includes you LT and you can take that as an insult if you want because clearly in your earlier thread you didn't care if you insulted me. Handguns in the right hands protect people from harm. LT, you not being able to see that is because you are blinded by what appears to be an agenda. Illegal guns to commit crime will still be readily available, even if you don't let any companies in this country make them. They will just be made in Mexico and marched across like drugs by the cartels, made available to bad guys not good guys.

                            I will tell you this, if D.C. tries to ban guns you watch what happens then. There will be states that will tell the federal government to F off.

                            Make it harder to get guns..no problem. Limit what these guns can do. No problem. But banning them all together will cause a shit storm that this country will not be able to withstand.

                            Now, if someone wants to push for me to be banned from the board for confronting LT go right ahead but LT you come off sometimes like an internet bully that is willing to say things via a keyboard that you'd never say to someones face. I appreciate your Eagles commentary but that is where it ends for me.

                            Offer a solution that has a chance to actually be agreed upon and then enter the debate.

                            Well, I did say "with all due respect..."
                            Don't kid yourself Jimmy. If a cow ever got the chance, he'd kill you and everyone you cared about!

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by sfphillyfan View Post
                              The problem is that politicians want to turn this into an all or nothing thing when the majority of sane rational americans (I think) think that people should have a right to bear arms: handguns for personal protection and guns for hunting. Ban everything that's semi or fully automatic. Ban hollow points. Ban anything that allows someone to shoot and kill large groups of people quickly. If the NRA thinks people have a right to assault weapons then fuck em. I'll take the safety of children and citizens over the ability of shitty hunters to spray bullets at a bunch of deer. That's not sport. Learn to fucking hunt for real.

                              If the politicians who get their money from the NRA and gun lobbyists think that having assault weapons is a basic american right and keep voting down bills, then they need to get the f out.

                              We need some goddamn common sense in this country instead of playing to the money. How many more 6 year old kids have to die before people wake the fuck up. Do the politicians (on either side) and media moguls have to be personally affected by something like this before they get that mass killings aren't an OPPORTUNITY to pad their bank accounts?

                              I'm disgusted by this whole thing. I'm disgusted by the media's complete lack of journalism ethics. I'm disgusted by "reporters" interviewing 6 year olds who have no idea how to even process being in school where their classmates were killed. I'm disgusted by the idiot sheep out there who eat up the 24 hour news cycle. I'm disgusted by the advertisers who pay money to advertise detergent and Viagra during these events.
                              IMO we need to find a way to arrest the parents who spend no time with their kids ,kids who don't have any people skills and can't deal with the normal pranks and bullying that occurs in childhood . Then these kids grow into adults with a million types of disorders/excuses for being assholes.Then one day when they feel the need for a huge dose of attention they take out all their frustrations on a roomful of students and end their existence with a shot under the chin.
                              My 2 sons have been shooting,handling,cleaning guns since the age of 5-6 under strict supervision and were allowed to keep their guns in their rooms since they were young teenagers because I trusted them, I spent time with them and knew they were not little sniveling cunts who would do something with their guns to harm another human being. They were allowed to fall down, get into fights with eachother and were always treated like adults and were never babied or coddled. Basicly,I'm of the opinion that if you handle your responsibilities with your kids you will drasticly lessen the chances of your kid being an asshole. It's not the guns fault for any of these crimes and it sure as hell isn't mine for owning and shooting guns . We don't need more laws,just a higher quality of people . How do you fix that ?
                              We're looking for people that are fundamentally different,” vice president of player personnel Andy Weidl said Saturday night. “The love and passion for football, it's non-negotiable. They're caring, their character, they do the right thing persistently, and they have a relentless playing style that you can see on tape. The motor, it burns hot. You see them finishing plays. They have a team-first mentality. They're selfless individuals.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                mm - forcing parents to spend time with kids is a bad solution. You can't force someone to be a *good* parent. There are plenty of shitty parents already.

                                The problem is that shitty people become parents. There's no way to fix that.

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