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Old 04-13-2007, 10:26 AM   #51
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Old 04-13-2007, 11:39 AM   #52
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This country's fascination with celebrities is retarded.
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Old 04-13-2007, 11:45 AM   #53
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The chick was lying thru her teeth. She writes this book about the real story with Anna, a sister she hadn't actually SEEN in over 10 years! Yeah, some insider. And while she felt that Anna was wrong in parting herself from her family: her-her mother-her father, she later in the interview says that she understands why Anna distanced herself from them. Basically said the family were scumbags. Well, DUH!

I actually feel bad for Anna. One therepist that worked with her said she was the most insecure person he'd ever met. What the hell can happen in one's childhood to make a girl that looked like HER insecure???? Damn she was hot when she was 20.
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Old 04-13-2007, 02:35 PM   #54
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There's more than one problem that we're dealing with here. Unfortunately, both Al and Jesse are opportunists who won't make money by highlighting the positive achievments since the 60's. They profiteer from creating a large schism between black people and other races.

There is a myriad of problems which need to be addressed by the black community. Despite the progress, there is still a large element in urban areas who don't view education and traditional success as something those in the neighborhood should attempt to achieve. We look at high profile athletes, not black businessmen, for example. TO calling McNabb a "company man", still reeks of the pressure within the community to ridiculously further the notion that financial success, accompanied by hard work and working with *gasp*, white people, is considered selling out.

Another is the lack of respect shown to black women in general. I was just watching "Geek to Chic" with Dennis Rodman. He actually helped a white couple get ready to attend a "Pimps and Hos" party. Amusing? A little. But, it's another symptom of the problems. Treating women like baby makers and hos for the sake of male bravado is ignorant. Bragging about the different mothers of ones children is a joke. This is just another symptom of the lack of respect for black women, and the men themselves. It doesn't take any type of a man to impregnate a woman. It does take a man to stay around and make the commitment for a lifetime.

There are other problems including the lack of education, the lure of easy money, the hopelessness of school aged children who think they can't become more than what's around them. And... the lack of communication and the ability to work with other races (especially whites) to further careers.

The problem here is not Imus, but the overreaction of the mob. We keep avoiding the true problems here. Tackling 3 words from an irrelevant media person is a joke.

The view that some blacks have of whites needs to change. Of course, the exact opposite is true also. For example. I do not allow anyone to call me "boss". I think, coming from black people, when they address me as such, is a racist comment. I had a discussion with someone a few years back. I told him to stop calling me boss, or the man. His response was the most honest that I've gotten. He told me that I was "always going to be the man", but I was going to be viewed as a "good man or a bad man". This attitude permeates the community, and is not typically known by whites. It's this sort of subtle racism that does not help anyone involved. At least I had someone be honest with me.

We all have to be brutally honest with each other. Listening to others concerns and their views is paramount. Instead of some of the posters on here distracting from the true problems, some of which I have addressed here. It might be time to stop posturing and accept responsibility for our own actions for all involved.
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Old 04-13-2007, 04:09 PM   #55
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This thread has been handled so much better with differing viewpoints than its sister on phliaphans.com. Kudos to you all.

I agree with a slight majority of the overall comments and Whitlock's points, but I also believe people are a bit jumpy to simplify this whole thing into "black community hypocrisy" with the rap angle and what crusades of Sharpton and Jackson get put on the mainstream media during a scandal.

I think Sharpton and Jackson are guys who do both good and bad for their community with their actions, but they also tend to be reactionaries and media whores for this stuff -- and the media encourages and milks it at every turn, along with the inevitable backlash from every cranky white pundit that this is censorship, PC run amok, hypocrisy, double standard, etc.

The mysoginy and racial insults in a lot of rap music is a worthwhile cultural issue to argue, but it is entirely beside the point of what Imus does on a show that is still used as a "serious establishment" roundtable for big-time politicians and newsmen. Moreover, as any record industry rag will tell you, over 80% of "gangsta rap" sales go to white suburban 18-30 year olds. I've met guys growing up in Florida who listened to NWA and were some of the most racist pricks you could ever meet. The problem is not owned wholly by the "black community" or its leaders, who DO for the most part speak out against it whether or not you see it on CNN, MSNBC, or Fox News.
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Old 04-13-2007, 04:16 PM   #56
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2 & A gets the word for the day: Mysoginy. good word man!

Misogyny is an exaggerated aversion towards women. Compared with anti-woman sexism, misogyny is usually regarded as directed against women by some men, though women can also harbor misogynistic views. In feminist theory, misogyny is recognised as a political ideology similar to racism or anti-Semitism, existing to justify and reproduce the subordination of women by men. The etymology of misogyny comes from the Greek and means to hate (misein) woman (gyne).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny
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Old 04-13-2007, 04:28 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglefan55
2 & A gets the word for the day: Mysoginy. good word man!

Misogyny is an exaggerated aversion towards women. Compared with anti-woman sexism, misogyny is usually regarded as directed against women by some men, though women can also harbor misogynistic views. In feminist theory, misogyny is recognised as a political ideology similar to racism or anti-Semitism, existing to justify and reproduce the subordination of women by men. The etymology of misogyny comes from the Greek and means to hate (misein) woman (gyne).
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misogyny
I always thought the woman-on-man variety was "misandry"?

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) -
mis·an·dry /ˈmɪsændri/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mis-an-dree] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
hatred of males.


Love how much simpler the definition is (though I think different sources for our citations is the culprit).
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Old 04-13-2007, 04:35 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyJack
There's more than one problem that we're dealing with here. Unfortunately, both Al and Jesse are opportunists who won't make money by highlighting the positive achievments since the 60's. They profiteer from creating a large schism between black people and other races.

There is a myriad of problems which need to be addressed by the black community. Despite the progress, there is still a large element in urban areas who don't view education and traditional success as something those in the neighborhood should attempt to achieve. We look at high profile athletes, not black businessmen, for example. TO calling McNabb a "company man", still reeks of the pressure within the community to ridiculously further the notion that financial success, accompanied by hard work and working with *gasp*, white people, is considered selling out.

Another is the lack of respect shown to black women in general. I was just watching "Geek to Chic" with Dennis Rodman. He actually helped a white couple get ready to attend a "Pimps and Hos" party. Amusing? A little. But, it's another symptom of the problems. Treating women like baby makers and hos for the sake of male bravado is ignorant. Bragging about the different mothers of ones children is a joke. This is just another symptom of the lack of respect for black women, and the men themselves. It doesn't take any type of a man to impregnate a woman. It does take a man to stay around and make the commitment for a lifetime.

There are other problems including the lack of education, the lure of easy money, the hopelessness of school aged children who think they can't become more than what's around them. And... the lack of communication and the ability to work with other races (especially whites) to further careers.

The problem here is not Imus, but the overreaction of the mob. We keep avoiding the true problems here. Tackling 3 words from an irrelevant media person is a joke.

The view that some blacks have of whites needs to change. Of course, the exact opposite is true also. For example. I do not allow anyone to call me "boss". I think, coming from black people, when they address me as such, is a racist comment. I had a discussion with someone a few years back. I told him to stop calling me boss, or the man. His response was the most honest that I've gotten. He told me that I was "always going to be the man", but I was going to be viewed as a "good man or a bad man". This attitude permeates the community, and is not typically known by whites. It's this sort of subtle racism that does not help anyone involved. At least I had someone be honest with me.

We all have to be brutally honest with each other. Listening to others concerns and their views is paramount. Instead of some of the posters on here distracting from the true problems, some of which I have addressed here. It might be time to stop posturing and accept responsibility for our own actions for all involved.

no, this particular problem was Imus and his race-baiting behavior, which has been going on for a long time. it just finally reached a tipping point. good riddance to that moron.
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Old 04-13-2007, 05:14 PM   #59
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2&A- You know why racist pricks love rap music? Because it reinforces stereotypes for them. Black women are hos and black guys are thugs and criminals. So what you have are a bunch of black guys that keep pushing these stereotypes and white guys eating it up.

When I was in high school, rap music was Rakim, Public Enemy*, EPMD, Paris, Kool G Rap, etc. They talked about drugs and street life but they didn't really glorify it. It was just like listening to a great storyteller with great rhymes and flow. ... and then NWA came along. And NWA was fucking good. NWA had great beats and they told wild stories no one had heard before. But they also started this long long slide into the muck that is rap music today.

You know who I can listen to these days (and less and less all the time because I'm sick of the entire fucking genre)? Wu Tang, Common, and sometimes Nas. I like Nas mainly out of habit because Illmatic was such a classic.

*PE was the first group that really sold well to suburban white teenagers but they didn't consciously record and market for that audience. It just happened.
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Old 04-13-2007, 05:23 PM   #60
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How can you leave out West Philly's own contribution to the legacy, the inimitable Schoolly D? Totally forgotten these days, even though he does some of the music for Adult Swim.

There's still a lot of good intelligent rap music out there. El-P, Aesop Rock, Antipop Consortium, Mos Def, Murs, for starters. A lot of them are on the Def-Jux label, which puts out consistently good stuff.

Wu-Tang, NaS, and Kanye West all have great moments but can also be blamed to different degrees for the same stuff you lay at the feet of the obvious lowest common denominators like 50 Cent, Ja Rule, etc. They are just that much more interesting and more sly about it, which of course only increases their appeal to both whites and blacks.

And you can pry my vinyl copy of Schoolly D's first album from my cold, dead, hands.
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