Vick should get a 2nd chance!

[stocknowledge]

The morality of it is hardly an issue. Plenty of people with questionable morals play pro sports. Nobody cares too much about morals when winning is the only priority.

If anything, the only issue that would keep him from coming back is the gambling thing. Sports leagues get spooked when a player associates with gambling.

It's funny, but I came to this thread after reading an article in ESPN magazine about whether Manny Ramirez should be allowed into the HOF after the recent disclosure about his use with performance enhancing drugs. The article made the point that several members of the Baseball HOF have questionable moral issues in their background which didn't prevent them from entering the hall. He mentioned that Tris Speaker and Rogers Hornsby both belonged to the KKK. Hank Greenburg and Joe Dimaggio had serious mob connections. Ty Cobb bragged about committing a murder and was suspected of fixing at least one game, and Grover Cleveland Alexander pitched drunk during prohibition.

So, the problem of moral issues surrounding professional athletes isn't new, and it has mostly not been a factor in judging whether a player should be allowed to play or prevented the player from HOF consideration. This is an era of political correctness, however, and players like Pete Rose and Mark McGwire have been barred from HOF entry. In Rose's case it is probably understandable because the integrity of the game itself was jeopardized by his behavior. The case against McGwire is different, because he helped popularize the game, we don't know how many players were doing the same thing, and the definition of what constitutes a performance enhancer is a little murky.

[balto-eaglefan]

McGwire hasn't been banned though, and I wouldn't be surprised if, one day, he actually does get in, along with Barry Bonds and others. But for the next decade at least, I can see a "code of silence" type agreement among the HoF voters that nobody'll vote for them, but that's different from Rose being officially banned for life.

I still don't get how Pete's gambling compromises the integrity of the game, bad enough that it leads to his being banned for life, but somehow steroid abuse isn't bad enough for that. I mean, if Mike Schmidt had taken steroids, he could've hit 650 home runs, and won who knows how many playoff games with them. This is where the MLB, and the writers that supposedly police it, have gotten dirty. They turn a blind eye, because they really don't even want to know who's clean and who isn't. Especially if the drug takers play for the team that they cover.

[Leonard Tose]

Really? What is the legal issue?

All that this question was about was the moral issue --- "Should Vick get a 2nd chance?"---- Has nothing, 0, zero to do with any legal issue. Since we don't make NFL policy, the only thing we CAN comment on is the moral issue.

More about NFL policy and concern about gambling than the legality of it. The people who run professional sports leagues are highly concerned about any gambling ties with regards to their players. Games can be compromised.

Vick's operation was all about gambling. I'm sure the NFL has looked very closely at Vick's associates at Bad Newz Kennels to see if there are unsavory characters who still may think they've got their hooks into him.

[balto-eaglefan]

Vick's operation was all about gambling. I'm sure the NFL has looked very closely at Vick's associates at Bad Newz Kennels to see if there are unsavory characters who still may think they've got their hooks into him.

This, I think, is dead on, and not just about the NFL's offices. Pretty sure that the feds wanted Vick's cooperation with that, as a condition of his plea agreement -- to find who Vick's associates were for the drugs and gambling, and who they knew, and who they knew, etc.

[MDFAN]

Since gambling in this country is legal and not a moral issue anymore, all that is left is NFL policy and legal issues, which again weren't the actual question asked.

The question of IF he should get a 2nd chance is much different then WILL he get a 2nd chance. IMM.

I agree with you, IMM, NO BALLS has enough to either ban him or at least suspend him for a awhile longer, using the gambling angle and not even getting into the rest of it.

[Leonard Tose]

Since gambling in this country is legal and not a moral issue anymore, all that is left is NFL policy and legal issues, which again weren't the actual question asked.

The question of IF he should get a 2nd chance is much different then WILL he get a 2nd chance. IMM.

I agree with you, IMM, NO BALLS has enough to either ban him or at least suspend him for a awhile longer, using the gambling angle and not even getting into the rest of it.

the threads do tend to wander sometimes, MD!

[MDFAN]

Of course they do, that's why is wise to know who you are responding to and which part of the "wandering" you're discussing.

Here I have been trying to stay true to the original question, my bad,,,,,, I guess.

[BIGPHILLY]

Michael Vick should be forgiven. He has served his time and paid a steep price for a heinous crime.

PETA is a bunch of hypocritical lunatics. They value animal life more than human life. Which is just insane.

[sdeaglefan]

Vick has done his time. He can play football in the NFL; whether or not an owner wants to deal with the PR flak for hiring him is the owner's problem.

As a dog lover, I can't forgive him unless he makes an ongoing contribution or performs regular community service to prevent animal cruelty. If Jeff Lurie hired him, I'd have to stop following the Eagles for a while. JMO.

[bullwinkle]

ick was responsible for providing an exvironment where hundreds of dogs were tortured and many were killed. The ones that didn't fight prove to be amoung the best and weren't killed were healed, and then given to shelters or pet shops. From there, you read about the dogs in your local papers mauling postal workers, children and other dogs.

The sentence wasn't long enough. And someone bought the Virginia DA off from trying him on their laws and sentencing him again. If that had happened, he would have gotten another 2-3 years in prison.

I think the Commissioner should sentence him for one year on such strict guidelines that it turns into a 2 year sentence. And then the Commissioner and the NFL should agree that if he is reinstated, he losses all of his seniority so that teams can offer him the UFDA rookie minumum.

Then it would be up to the individual owners to decide whether his contributions would justify the hit his club would take financialy for hiring such a low life.

Most people can have some compassion for a DUI susect because they know that at least once or twice in their life they got behind the wheel after consuming too much, and feel fortunate that nothing bad happened that night. Most people can't relate to torturing defenseless animals for recreation. There is no double-standard. People who think there is either never got behind the wheel when they shoudln't have, or at some point tottured defenseless animals for fun.

[Eaglebreath]

Most people can have some compassion for a DUI susect because they know that at least once or twice in their life they got behind the wheel after consuming too much, and feel fortunate that nothing bad happened that night. Most people can't relate to torturing defenseless animals for recreation. There is no double-standard. People who think there is either never got behind the wheel when they shoudln't have, or at some point tottured defenseless animals for fun.

I totally disagree with this. You have these animal rights yahoos and dog nuts saying that what Vick did was serial murder. Premeditated murder, and that it is worse than what someone like Leonard Little did. They leave out the fact that it was Dogs that were Vicks victims. Not humans. IMO, killing one person while driving drunk is worse than killing a hundred dogs. I'm not condoning what Vick did, but it's ludicrous that he spent more time in jail as well as losing a hell of a lot more money. And, I have gotten behind the wheel when I shouldn't have, and I've never tortured defenseless animals for any reason.

[tinopuno]

ick was responsible for providing an exvironment where hundreds of dogs were tortured and many were killed. The ones that didn't fight prove to be amoung the best and weren't killed were healed, and then given to shelters or pet shops. From there, you read about the dogs in your local papers mauling postal workers, children and other dogs.

The sentence wasn't long enough. And someone bought the Virginia DA off from trying him on their laws and sentencing him again. If that had happened, he would have gotten another 2-3 years in prison.

I think the Commissioner should sentence him for one year on such strict guidelines that it turns into a 2 year sentence. And then the Commissioner and the NFL should agree that if he is reinstated, he losses all of his seniority so that teams can offer him the UFDA rookie minumum.

Then it would be up to the individual owners to decide whether his contributions would justify the hit his club would take financialy for hiring such a low life.

Most people can have some compassion for a DUI susect because they know that at least once or twice in their life they got behind the wheel after consuming too much, and feel fortunate that nothing bad happened that night. Most people can't relate to torturing defenseless animals for recreation. There is no double-standard. People who think there is either never got behind the wheel when they shoudln't have, or at some point tottured defenseless animals for fun.

Good post! I probably think so because it largely mirrors my thinking.

BTW, Gerald Poindexter, the POS local part-time DA would VERY CLEARLY have seen to it that Vick walk completely had the Feds not intervened. As an elected official in an area of VA where Vick was a sports legend, he had no intention of angering his 'constituency' by prosecuting Vick. He stated this in just so many words.

Poindexter was and is an embarrassment to the legal system who did everything in his considerable 'local' power to protect Vick. The asshole
probably attended a dog fight or 2!

[MDFAN]

ick was responsible for providing an exvironment where hundreds of dogs were tortured and many were killed. The ones that didn't fight prove to be amoung the best and weren't killed were healed, and then given to shelters or pet shops. From there, you read about the dogs in your local papers mauling postal workers, children and other dogs.

The sentence wasn't long enough. And someone bought the Virginia DA off from trying him on their laws and sentencing him again. If that had happened, he would have gotten another 2-3 years in prison.

I think the Commissioner should sentence him for one year on such strict guidelines that it turns into a 2 year sentence. And then the Commissioner and the NFL should agree that if he is reinstated, he losses all of his seniority so that teams can offer him the UFDA rookie minumum.

Then it would be up to the individual owners to decide whether his contributions would justify the hit his club would take financialy for hiring such a low life.

Most people can have some compassion for a DUI susect because they know that at least once or twice in their life they got behind the wheel after consuming too much, and feel fortunate that nothing bad happened that night. Most people can't relate to torturing defenseless animals for recreation. There is no double-standard. People who think there is either never got behind the wheel when they shoudln't have, or at some point tottured defenseless animals for fun.

Good post!

[bullwinkle]

A DUI shows poor judgement and a possible addiction problem. In Florida, I have seen DUI manslaughter get a 20 year prison term. What Vick did was show that he enjoys seeing animals suffer. A very significant part of the US population has pets. And would not like having to cheer for someone who would take pleasure in making their pet suffer.

When you have a pet, you develop feelings for it and try to take care of it and protect it. And you would feel terrible if you failed to protect it from some lo-life who enjoyed making it suffer. I had the misfortune of running into one of those lo-lifes who tried to drown my cat in his toilet. To this day, I'm not sure I made the right decision in not pulling the trigger when I caught him. And I watched what it did to the cats personality for the next 10 years of its life. This friendly outgoing cat shook in fear every time it saw a male after that other than me. If someone like that became an Eagle, I would probably quit watching football.

[Leonard Tose]

A DUI shows poor judgement and a possible addiction problem. In Florida, I have seen DUI manslaughter get a 20 year prison term. What Vick did was show that he enjoys seeing animals suffer. A very significant part of the US population has pets. And would not like having to cheer for someone who would take pleasure in making their pet suffer.

When you have a pet, you develop feelings for it and try to take care of it and protect it. And you would feel terrible if you failed to protect it from some lo-life who enjoyed making it suffer. I had the misfortune of running into one of those lo-lifes who tried to drown my cat in his toilet. To this day, I'm not sure I made the right decision in not pulling the trigger when I caught him. And I watched what it did to the cats personality for the next 10 years of its life. This friendly outgoing cat shook in fear every time it saw a male after that other than me. If someone like that became an Eagle, I would probably quit watching football.

Look, I agree that inhumanity to defenseless animals is an appalling, nasty business. Vick absolutely deserved to be convicted of a felony and serve prison time for what he did.

However, I disagree that it's worse than a DWI. I don't care if it's an addiction problem or a weakness or whatever. People get killed and maimed all of the time by drunk drivers.

I'm sorry, in my book that's worse than mistreating animals. I don't think Vick set out just to torture and maim animals. He wanted to put on a show and set up a gambling operation.

He paid a very severe price and it was absolutely warranted. However, the public reaction to the whole affair was completely over the top.

Just the fact that we are having a debate over whether he should be banned for life from the NFL is further evidence of this overheated response. Many felons continue to find work as pro athletes after serving their time.

Why is Vick singled out for unusual censure here? Because people are crazy when it comes to their domesticated animals, particularly dogs, IMO.