Vick should get a 2nd chance!

[leifdawg]

ick was responsible for providing an exvironment where hundreds of dogs were tortured and many were killed. The ones that didn't fight prove to be amoung the best and weren't killed were healed, and then given to shelters or pet shops. From there, you read about the dogs in your local papers mauling postal workers, children and other dogs.

The sentence wasn't long enough. And someone bought the Virginia DA off from trying him on their laws and sentencing him again. If that had happened, he would have gotten another 2-3 years in prison.

I think the Commissioner should sentence him for one year on such strict guidelines that it turns into a 2 year sentence. And then the Commissioner and the NFL should agree that if he is reinstated, he losses all of his seniority so that teams can offer him the UFDA rookie minumum.

Then it would be up to the individual owners to decide whether his contributions would justify the hit his club would take financialy for hiring such a low life.

Most people can have some compassion for a DUI susect because they know that at least once or twice in their life they got behind the wheel after consuming too much, and feel fortunate that nothing bad happened that night. Most people can't relate to torturing defenseless animals for recreation. There is no double-standard. People who think there is either never got behind the wheel when they shoudln't have, or at some point tottured defenseless animals for fun.

With all due respect, and I mean all due respect, your fucking crazy.

I love dogs. I used to breed and train German Sheppards. But in the end they are just that dogs.

What Vick did was wrong. But the guy lost millions of dollars, 2+ years of his career, and hurt his future earning ability. He has been adequately punished.

Also, stating that torturing dogs is worse than DUI manslaughter is absolutely insane. Like someone else said killing 100 dogs wouldn't equal one person. IMO, anyone who gets behind the wheel drunk should do jail time, even if they don't actually hit anyone. If they kill someone they should be treated just like 2nd degree murder.

[Eaglebreath]

Look, I agree that inhumanity to defenseless animals is an appalling, nasty business. Vick absolutely deserved to be convicted of a felony and serve prison time for what he did.

However, I disagree that it's worse than a DWI. I don't care if it's an addiction problem or a weakness or whatever. People get killed and maimed all of the time by drunk drivers.

I'm sorry, in my book that's worse than mistreating animals. I don't think Vick set out just to torture and maim animals. He wanted to put on a show and set up a gambling operation.

He paid a very severe price and it was absolutely warranted. However, the public reaction to the whole affair was completely over the top.

Just the fact that we are having a debate over whether he should be banned for life from the NFL is further evidence of this overheated response. Many felons continue to find work as pro athletes after serving their time.

Why is Vick singled out for unusual censure here? Because people are crazy when it comes to their domesticated animals, particularly dogs, IMO.

Good post.

[MDFAN]

Just the fact that we are having a debate over whether he should be banned for life from the NFL is further evidence of this overheated response. Many felons continue to find work as pro athletes after serving their time.

Where is this debate about being banned for life? Sorry, the debate might be if he has been punished enough or not but there isn't any debate about banning him for life that I recall, that whats over the top.

He paid a very severe price and it was absolutely warranted. However, the public reaction to the whole affair was completely over the top.

This is where fair minded people seem to disagree.

It's not "completely over the top" ---- it's just that you disagree with the many millions that think he got off light. The fact is he should have gotten another 3 or 4 years from the State. And the gambling issue hasn't even been dealt with properly. So yeah I can see where many many people think he got off light.

[bullwinkle]

With all due respect, and I mean all due respect, your fucking crazy.

I love dogs. I used to breed and train German Sheppards. But in the end they are just that dogs.

What Vick did was wrong. But the guy lost millions of dollars, 2+ years of his career, and hurt his future earning ability. He has been adequately punished.

Also, stating that torturing dogs is worse than DUI manslaughter is absolutely insane. Like someone else said killing 100 dogs wouldn't equal one person. IMO, anyone who gets behind the wheel drunk should do jail time, even if they don't actually hit anyone. If they kill someone they should be treated just like 2nd degree murder.

DUI manslaughter is injury caused by irresponsible and illegal behavior. And I am fine with 20 year sentences if he person has a previous DUI on his record. What Vick did was premeditated inflicting of pain and suffering for no purpose other than personal entertainment. I consider anyone capable of inflicting pain and suffering on defenseless creatures as much a danger to society as a habitual DUI offender. Neither should be allowed back into society until a mental institution declares them to be cured. And both should be monitored when allowed to reenter.

I believe that alcoholics could be cured easier than Vick. Because the alcoholic might have a conscience. I don't believe those who commit torture for entertainment have a conscience that can be reached. But that is just my opinion.

I am serious when I say that I would quit watching football if Vick became an Eagle. I can't support any other team. And I wouldn't be able to support the Eagles.

Perhaps Vick should look for a career in wrestling. People would pay good money to see his ass kicked even if it was fake. He would probably make more money wrestling than he will ever do in football again. And that is especially true if he isn't a very good wrestler.

[Leonard Tose]

Where is this debate about being banned for life? Sorry, the debate might be if he has been punished enough or not but there isn't any debate about banning him for life that I recall, that whats over the top.

Sorry, MD, more thread wandering. I believe some folks on here, not you, have argued that Vick should never be allowed back in the NFL again.

This is where fair minded people seem to disagree.

It's not "completely over the top" ---- it's just that you disagree with the many millions that think he got off light. The fact is he should have gotten another 3 or 4 years from the State. And the gambling issue hasn't even been dealt with properly. So yeah I can see where many many people think he got off light.

I don't see how anyone could come to the conclusion that Vick hasn't paid a terrible price. He's a convicted felon. He's gone to prison. His reputation has been forever tarnished. His NFL career has been destroyed for a period of several years, at what should be his peak earnings power. He may never return to his former level of play, and earnings. His $100-plus million contract will likely be terminated soon by the Falcons (even though he did get to keep the SB, he still had to fight to keep that.) He's had to declare bankruptcy.

Basically, his life has been destroyed. All this for running an illegal dogfighting operation. What more do folks want from this guy?

And if you don't think the public's reaction to this Vick nonsense has been over the top, take a look at the media hordes camped out at his house after his release:

This is OJ treatment. Remember, he ran an illegal dogfighting operation.

[balto-eaglefan]

What more do some fans want from Vick? They want him to not play football in the NFL anymore, apparently. Most seem to agree that he has the legal right to play, though they might be happier if he plays in the CFL, Arena Football, or just becomes a coach at a small college somewhere.

And, it just might happen that way, and that's fair. He doesn't have a "right" to a starting roster spot in the league...it's a business, and if owners don't want the PR migraine that they'd get from signing a guy with the herpes incident, animal torture, gambling and drugs track record like Sick's, that's a sensible choice. But even Pacman Jones got another shot, so it stands to reason that some team, maybe Dallas or the Raiders, will sign him.

Of course he did that operation to torture the animals. If he just wanted gambling and drugs as the centerpiece, you'd think it might've occurred to just do gambling and drugs.....NFL players know plenty of ways to party besides.........

Some people might be crazy when it comes to their dogs, and treat their pets better than they treat their families (which sucks), but people who think that everyone should just politely act like Vick did nothing, simply because Vick's a pro athlete....and that a person who tortures animals over a six year period really isn't off-the-deep-end messed up, are even crazier than that.

I wonder how many other NFL players knew that he did it. I'm suspecting, not many, because I don't think that it could've been kept secret for long. DMac's known Vick since his Syracuse days, but he'd been to any of those houses, I'd stop being a DMac fan immediately.

[MDFAN]

Sorry, MD, more thread wandering. I believe some folks on here, not you, have argued that Vick should never be allowed back in the NFL again.

Still haven't seen any "debate" here about banning him, maybe a couple of people do think he should be banned, but it hasn't been "the debate".

I don't see how anyone could come to the conclusion that Vick hasn't paid a terrible price. He's a convicted felon. He's gone to prison. His reputation has been forever tarnished. His NFL career has been destroyed for a period of several years, at what should be his peak earnings power. He may never return to his former level of play, and earnings. His $100-plus million contract will likely be terminated soon by the Falcons (even though he did get to keep the SB, he still had to fight to keep that.) He's had to declare bankruptcy.

Basically, his life has been destroyed. All this for running an illegal dogfighting operation. What more do folks want from this guy?

Your first line sez it all -- nobody has said he hasn't paid a price, many just believe that it hasn't been enough yet. And quite frankly his "price" paid is the jail time and nothing else--- all the rest was his own doing because he did terrible things--- they weren't "taken from him" -- IMO he gave them away based on his choices. Financially he was only ruined because of his lifestyle--- he could have been frugal but choose not to be. And the bankruptcy hurt who???????? Him or the people that didn't get paid, and the consumers that now have to pay more cause he didn't have to pay his debts?

Please, he suffered no more than any other felon suffers, and he got off light due to the State of Va.

[balto-eaglefan]

Here's a question: what should happen before Vick would be allowed to play in the NFL again?

My answer would be, first give him a year or two of more exile in the Arena Football League or the CFL, have him continue to go to some sort of counseling, and from now on, have him do regular appearances every year to at-risk youth or work for the SPCA and anti-drug and anti-gambling groups, if only to express his genuine remorse, show that he's changed, and serve as a cautionary tale. He knows that interviewers will always ask him if he regrets what he did, how he could've done those things, what he would've changed, and how he feels about whether or not he's let down his fans, etc. So if he comes back, he's still got a long road ahead of him.

If his contrition is genuine (and his actions'll show if it is or not), he just might get a chance to salvage what's left of his NFL career and his reputation, even if somebody only signs him for the league minimum as a backup. You never know. Again, Dallas did sign Pacman Jones, and America likes a good comeback story, after all.

[Eaglebreath]

It's not "completely over the top" ---- it's just that you disagree with the many millions that think he got off light. The fact is he should have gotten another 3 or 4 years from the State. And the gambling issue hasn't even been dealt with properly. So yeah I can see where many many people think he got off light.

Leonard Little served 90 days in jail, and did community service, but Vick is the one that "got off light."

[leifdawg]

DUI manslaughter is injury caused by irresponsible and illegal behavior. And I am fine with 20 year sentences if he person has a previous DUI on his record. What Vick did was premeditated inflicting of pain and suffering for no purpose other than personal entertainment. I consider anyone capable of inflicting pain and suffering on defenseless creatures as much a danger to society as a habitual DUI offender. Neither should be allowed back into society until a mental institution declares them to be cured. And both should be monitored when allowed to reenter.

I believe that alcoholics could be cured easier than Vick. Because the alcoholic might have a conscience. I don't believe those who commit torture for entertainment have a conscience that can be reached. But that is just my opinion.

I am serious when I say that I would quit watching football if Vick became an Eagle. I can't support any other team. And I wouldn't be able to support the Eagles.

Perhaps Vick should look for a career in wrestling. People would pay good money to see his ass kicked even if it was fake. He would probably make more money wrestling than he will ever do in football again. And that is especially true if he isn't a very good wrestler.

And again, I say your crazy if you rank a dog's life or even one hundred dogs' lives anywhere near that of a human.

[MDFAN]

Leonard Little served 90 days in jail, and did community service, but Vick is the one that "got off light."

Umm, where did I ever say or anybody ever say that LL served what he should have? Now on the other hand(and I don't know the answer) what did he get IN comparison to others?

Please, you act like somebody is trying to compare the two--- can't it be that they both got off light?

Since when does two wrongs make a right? Sheesh.

[tinopuno]

Umm, where did I ever say or anybody ever say that LL served what he should have? Now on the other hand(and I don't know the answer) what did he get IN comparison to others?

Please, you act like somebody is trying to compare the two--- can't it be that they both got off light?

Since when does two wrongs make a right? Sheesh.

MD,

Did I somehow miss the part where you were a defense witness in the case against Little. I've got to pay closer attention.

The Leonard Little Argument is a classic 'straw man argument' that is used ad nauseam by many of those who contend that Vick's punishment and financial losses are already sufficient, if not grossly excessive punishment for his misdeeds.

While the 'Leonard Little Argument' is used somewhat carelessly (IMO) by many usually thoughtful people, it also seems to have special appeal to the intellectually lazy who choose to ignore the reality that (virtually) anyone who has argued publicly (on this board or elsewhere) that Vick's punishment was 'too light' also believe strongly that Little's punishment was as well.





(From Wikipedia - A Straw Man Argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.)

[NoDakIggle]

Since when does two wrongs make a right? Sheesh.

They don't but three rights make a left.

[MDFAN]

MD,

Did I somehow miss the part where you were a defense witness in the case against Little. I've got to pay closer attention.

The Leonard Little Argument is a classic 'straw man argument' that is used ad nauseam by many of those who contend that Vick's punishment and financial losses are already sufficient, if not grossly excessive punishment for his misdeeds.

While the 'Leonard Little Argument' is used somewhat carelessly (IMO) by many usually thoughtful people, it also seems to have special appeal to the intellectually lazy who choose to ignore the reality that (virtually) anyone who has argued publicly (on this board or elsewhere) that Vick's punishment was 'too light' also believe strongly that Little's punishment was as well.





(From Wikipedia - A Straw Man Argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.)

.

Thank You!

[MDFAN]

They don't but three rights make a left.

As long as they are all 90 degrees!!! LOL.