Vick should get a 2nd chance!

[Eaglebreath]

MD,

Did I somehow miss the part where you were a defense witness in the case against Little. I've got to pay closer attention.

The Leonard Little Argument is a classic 'straw man argument' that is used ad nauseam by many of those who contend that Vick's punishment and financial losses are already sufficient, if not grossly excessive punishment for his misdeeds.

While the 'Leonard Little Argument' is used somewhat carelessly (IMO) by many usually thoughtful people, it also seems to have special appeal to the intellectually lazy who choose to ignore the reality that (virtually) anyone who has argued publicly (on this board or elsewhere) that Vick's punishment was 'too light' also believe strongly that Little's punishment was as well.





(From Wikipedia - A Straw Man Argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting a superficially similar proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.)

Bla, bla. bla.

O.K. they both got off light. But, Little got off a hell of a lot lighter than Vick, and what he did was far worse. And, if you are going to allow the Leonard Little's of the world to play in the NFL, without so much as a whimper, then STFU about Mike Vick.

Vick kills some dogs. He goes to federal prison, loses millions of dollars, his career, has to declare bankruptcy, and people still think he got off light. Sorry if I don't feel the same way. Little, on the other hand, should be in jail.

[Vote for Kalas]

I agree with EB, killing a human is worse than killing a dog. If Little (and others) who have killed humans get to come back and play in the NFL then Vick deserves at least the same.

In fact, if the public, media etc reacted as strongly and stayed on top of the story as much in Little's case as they have with Vick we may actually have less loss of human life every day

[MDFAN]

Bla, bla. bla.

O.K. they both got off light. But, Little got off a hell of a lot lighter than Vick, and what he did was far worse. And, if you are going to allow the Leonard Little's of the world to play in the NFL, without so much as a whimper, then STFU about Mike Vick.

Vick kills some dogs. He goes to federal prison, loses millions of dollars, his career, has to declare bankruptcy, and people still think he got off light. Sorry if I don't feel the same way. Little, on the other hand, should be in jail.

Not sure who you are telling to STFU here?

Please direct your "STFU's" to those who might think it is ok for the Leonard Little's of the world to still play. That isn't me, and for that matter I haven't heard anyone here claim that they think it's ok.

All you seem to want to do is compare LL to MV--- yet most of us can see that they are 2 separate issues--- again 2 wrongs don't make it right.

As for his punishment-- please get it straight ---- He wins in Bankruptcy-- he gets out of debt-- the people that lose are the people he owed money to.

Next he got punished no more, 0, Zilch ,more than any other felon gets when he becomes a felon and next -- he did get off light compared to what he could have and should have gotten, including the wimpy state of Va and the gambling angle. And it has NOTHING to do with LL.

[tinopuno]

Bla, bla. bla.

O.K. they both got off light. But, Little got off a hell of a lot lighter than Vick, and what he did was far worse. And, if you are going to allow the Leonard Little's of the world to play in the NFL, without so much as a whimper, then STFU about Mike Vick.

I must have been absent on the day you were granted the power to tell other board members to STFU when you didn't like what you thought were their positions.

Very impressive!

[Eaglebreath]

I must have been absent on the day you were granted the power to tell other board members to STFU when you didn't like what you thought were their positions.

Very impressive!

Thanks!!

That wasn't directed at you personally, tino, nor MD. But there are a lot of people out there that are barking real loud about Vick, no pun intended, while not having much to say about all these other felons running around the NFL. Little is just one example.

[MDFAN]

That has a lot to do with National name recognition and just how much the media decide they want to play it.

As we all know the QB gets the big bucks, gets the national press, gets to be the face of the team -- maybe that plays into it----- but to sit there and claim that people can't be that upset is silly. Again 2 wrongs don't make it right... and I think your anger should be directed at the media -- not the mob mentality they create.

You want to go on a "BAN" LL campaign? Fine, but that doesn't have anything to do with Vick and the people that want he punished some more.... me included.

[Leonard Tose]

The idea that Vick got off light is patently absurd, IMO. The guy has had his life destroyed. He had a $130 million contract. Now he's bankrupt. He's a convicted felon. You carry that around for life. He has been imprisoned. What more do you want from a guy who basically bankrolled an illegal dogfighting operation?

[Eaglebreath]

The idea that Vick got off light is patently absurd, IMO. The guy has had his life destroyed. He had a $130 million contract. Now he's bankrupt. He's a convicted felon. You carry that around for life. He has been imprisoned. What more do you want from a guy who basically bankrolled an illegal dogfighting operation?

Agreed.

[leifdawg]

The idea that Vick got off light is patently absurd, IMO. The guy has had his life destroyed. He had a $130 million contract. Now he's bankrupt. He's a convicted felon. You carry that around for life. He has been imprisoned. What more do you want from a guy who basically bankrolled an illegal dogfighting operation?

QFT

And I'm someone who considers himself a tough on crime guy.

Also, bankruptcy doesn't just punish the people he owes money too, it hurts him as well. First all his non essential assets were sold at auction. Next he won't be able to get a credit card, buy a house, or finance a car for 10+ years.

[MDFAN]

The idea that Vick got off light is patently absurd, IMO.

Many, including me, don't think it's absurd..... but thanks for the notion that our idea is absurd.

The guy has had his life destroyed.

Hmm, I think his life was destroyed, and it should be labeled a suicide.

His life was no more destroyed than any other felons is, unless you feel he should have special treatment cause he had money or a big name?

Sorry I don't have a crying towel for this smuck. And I don't think for a minute that he is "changed" or even understands just what a low life he really is. He might be remorseful that he lost all that $$$$ and bling and that he got caught, but I won't be convinced that he is remorseful for the cruelness that he carried himself with for years. And yes of course I don't know what in his heart, that's jimho.

He had a $130 million contract.

So that should enter into any of this? How does that work, the truck driver that loses everything after he gets convicted of a felony doesn't lose just as much... or only rich guys lose? And we should feel sorry for him cause he lost 130 million and the truck driver only lost 50k?

Now he's bankrupt.

And this is a negative for him how? Ask the guys he owed the money to if they think it's a bad thing for Vick... or the consumers that will now have to make up those shortfalls..... please.

He's a convicted felon. You carry that around for life.

Yes,, yes he is and your point here? He didn't know that this was a possible outcome? Please,,,,,,,,, again.

He has been imprisoned. What more do you want from a guy who basically bankrolled an illegal dogfighting operation?

Ahh, and here is the real rub--- IMO(and many many others) he got a very light sentence in his Federal rap, he got nothing from the State, which is a lot more "absurd", and he got nothing so far from the gambling aspect. So please, you want to disagree about what should happen next, fine,, but don't insult the people that disagree with you.

[MDFAN]

QFT

Next he won't be able to get a credit card, buy a house, or finance a car for 10+ years.

Bullshit--please join the rest of us in the real world.

[Zepster]

Bravo MD, Bravo! I'm glad you're posting in this thread, you've saved me a lot of typing. I feel the exact same way. This jack ass got off easy and convicted felon or not it looks like he has a chance to still play football. I know of many companies that won't give you a sniff if you're a convicted felon, but not the nfl, they keep giving the assholes 2nd 3rd and 4th chances to earn the big coin. Hell he couldn't get a job at a damn 7/11 with his record.

[Leonard Tose]

Many, including me, don't think it's absurd..... but thanks for the notion that our idea is absurd.

Please note that I said "IMO" to that point. I'm sorry you consider that an insult.

So that should enter into any of this? How does that work, the truck driver that loses everything after he gets convicted of a felony doesn't lose just as much... or only rich guys lose? And we should feel sorry for him cause he lost 130 million and the truck driver only lost 50k?

However you want to parse it, $130 million is still $130 million. His losses are far greater than that of the average convict.

Substantial losses like that are absolutely a consideration when prosecutors make sentencing recommendations to judges. Judges are expected to consider the entirety of the punishment -- not just the actual prison time, but other factors that also constitute punishment, including financial loss.

[MDFAN]

Please note that I said "IMO" to that point. I'm sorry you consider that an insult.

Noted for the record and will be a reference point in the future.

However you want to parse it, $130 million is still $130 million. His losses are far greater than that of the average convict.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

That 130 million is exactly the same as that truck drivers 50k--- his everything. The real difference is that Vick has god given talent that will allow him - assuming the gutless wonder in NFL headquarters allows it-- to earn much of it back.... that truck driver won't get nearly that many doors opened to him.

[MDFAN]

Bravo MD, Bravo! I'm glad you're posting in this thread, you've saved me a lot of typing. I feel the exact same way. This jack ass got off easy and convicted felon or not it looks like he has a chance to still play football. I know of many companies that won't give you a sniff if you're a convicted felon, but not the nfl, they keep giving the assholes 2nd 3rd and 4th chances to earn the big coin. Hell he couldn't get a job at a damn 7/11 with his record.

Thanks and I agree--- his fame and notoriety will open many more doors for him that that truck driver will have opened. He can write a book and sell it-- let the truck driver try.