OT: Thoughts and Prayers for the people in Connecticut

[musicman]

How did he get into the school ? My wife works at our local high school and NO ONE gets in. They have to buzz you in the main entrance unless you have a security code and then you don't get past the lobby if you don't have a pass or a security badge.

[FRESH]

You can't be serious!

Serious about arming the teachers? No. Serious about having armed security at schools? Hell yeah.
Serious about people taking full advantage of their 2nd Amendment rights to arm and protect themselves and their families from nutcases? Double hell yeah!

[FRESH]

How did he get into the school ? My wife works at our local high school and NO ONE gets in. They have to buzz you in the main entrance unless you have a security code and then you don't get past the lobby if you don't have a pass or a security badge.

I go into schools fairly often, and while I sometimes go in the offices, I often just walk right in and go find the maintenance personnel. No biggie. This is in Florida.

[tinopuno]

Serious about arming the teachers? No. Serious about having armed security at schools? Hell yeah.
Serious about people taking full advantage of their 2nd Amendment rights to arm and protect themselves and their families from nutcases? Double hell yeah!

In all respect Mike, there is a world of difference between arming 'teachers', your original suggestion, and having armed security guards in schools. As sad a comment the latter is on our society, it appears to be necessary.

And Mike, again in respect and affection, let's not any of us join a debate on 2nd Amendment rights in this emotionally charged atmosphere.

[FRESH]

No problem tino. And as I suggested above, my anger was flowing at the moment. I couldn't help wishing that there had been someone on premises who could have responded and saved these 20 kids who were systematically executed.

I wish I could have been there.

[tinopuno]

How did he get into the school ?

As you've probably heard by now, it's now being reported that he gained entry by shooting out a window.

[tinopuno]

No problem tino. And as I suggested above, my anger was flowing at the moment. I couldn't help wishing that there had been someone on premises who could have responded and saved these 20 kids who were systematically executed.

I wish I could have been there.

Mike,

It is sad beyond comprehension. I have a granddaughter who just began kindergarten and I can still remember as though it were yesterday the first day my little girl got on the bus for her first day at school. I think of the two of them and then I picture those little innocents sitting at their desks and then I imagine this sick little bastard killing them one by one and I start weeping again.

I suspect a lot of us wish we could have been there and somehow prevented this unspeakable slaughter.

[andrewaters]

Guys, I caught a case of the flu yesterday and was in bed all day watching as the awful details unfolded. No we cannot imagine what the families are going through and will cope with for the rest of their lives. As the father of a 4 year old and a 16 month old, it is too horrible to imagine so I'm not going to put myself in that position.

As for a gun control discussion, I will go there.

They have very strict gun control laws in Norway. Did that keep that crazy guy from killing nearly hundred kids on that island a few years ago. No.

We have very strict laws regarding drugs and child pornography in this country, yet disturbed people and addicts manage to find ways to get their hands on both of those things.

Gun control laws only take guns away from the people that in most instances are sane enough and responsible enough to use them correctly.

Locking the school down with metal detectors and advanced door locks wouldn't have prevented this. The crazy kid shot out a window and got in that way.

But what if in this school of 700 a few teachers that are experienced gun owners would volunteer to be part of an armed militia. Every year, they spend a week at a gun camp where they are analyzed over and over again to make sure they are not crazy. They practice in real live scenarios such as this one in taking the assailant down.

I will GUARANTEE you that there are teachers in that school that would participate in that program. Not because they want to be Dirty Harry but because they are willing to step up and protect the lives of others.

Heck, pay them if you want. Every person that is in the national militia program gets $2500 annual to keep up on training...both gun related and mental training.

If one of those teachers would've had access to a gun and were willing they could've prevented much of this slaughter. Same can be said of what happened at Va. Tech or at the movie theater in Colorado.

One of the primary reasons that these things happen is there is no fear on the part of the assailant. They see no line crossed because there is no one standing at the line defending the innocent.

Now all gun control advocates can start in with the statistics about how legal gun owners are more likely to kill themselves or a loved one. What the fuck ever. Those stats are meaningless and are a crutch for the anti-gun lobby.

Ask yourself this...why after 9-11 did the NTSB decide air marshalls with guns on flights was a good thing...because guns in the right hands keep people safe. Why do cops and security officers carry guns...because guns in the right hands keep people safe. Why would a nationally regulated, trained, and compensated team of civilians routinely trained and evaluated armed with hands guns ready to bring justice to these bastards quickly work...because guns in the right hands keep people safe.

Guns in the wrong hands kill innocent kids.

Again, I realize I'm going to get slammed in this thread here so have at me. But - and again I say this with the utmost respect and heartfelt sympathy for the parents of these children - if you were to ask the parents today if they would've been OK with several of the teachers in that school to be armed with guns to protect their kids from crazies like this. There would be a resounding yes.

The illusion that this will never happen in your school, your mall, your town, keeps people from believing a program like the one I've mentioned above would be beneficial but when it happens in your town your opinion changes.

Lastly, and again not to offend, but I have ZERO sympathy for the family of this psycho. The mother had 4 registered guns and her kid had behavioral issues. The brother admitted he hadn't spoken to his brother since 2010. The father lives an hour away. In a sense, it appears the family let this kid roam at his own will. I guarantee you that as they peel back the layers on this wacko there will be numerous red flags. Why type of older brother doesn't talk to his younger brother for two years? The type that doesn't want to be bothered by him because he knows he is off his rocker.

Lastly part two I will say, I don't own a handgun. I own a shotgun. I'm not a hunter nor a member of the NRA. I may someday purchase a handgun and you can bet if I would everyone in my family, including my daughters would know how to operate it with respect.

GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE. PSYCHOS KILL INNOCENT PEOPLE.

And you can bet your ass that if I would have been in that school with a gun I would have had no problem in wasting that kid. So would probably every other teacher and adult in the building.

Its time to stand up and say enough and arm the right people with the right weapon to stop these bastards in their tracks and send them to hell where they belong.

[Jukin]

AW the idea of arming teachers isn't the best starting point but I agree with it as a last resort. It would be much better to have real security (not the 80 year old retired accountant who puts on a uniform and carries a radio around. That's not security it's the appearance of security!) I'm talking about police officers. Off duty cops or recently retired cops who wear a uniform and carry a gun. 2-3 in a school would be enough to respond immediately to any threat like this. Arming teachers who are trained once or twice a year for the "what if" scenario is asking for trouble. These guys are going to be hyped up and shaking in their boots as they try to remember their training and assess a situation they have only pictured in their heads. Overreactions and mistakes - deadly mistakes - are a likely outcome. This tragedy would be much worse if we learned that some of the kids or adults were shot by a would-be hero who mistakenly fired on the wrong person.

Cops deal with life-death situations every day. They are the first best defense against these types of crimes. Of course adding 2-3 cops in every school costs money our current budgets don't have. I have no doubt that we can cut wasteful spending in our government to pay for it.

[andrewaters]

Juk. I agree cops and/or retired cops would be better. But who would pay for it? Would they be volunteers like crossing guards?

Please everyone understand i know this is not the time to debate this truly... But when is the time?

Something HAS to be done and fewer guns is not the answer. If this crazy didn't have a gun, would he have built 10 homemade pipe bombs and booby trapped the school. Would he have hung out in the bathroom and quietly killed second graders as they walked in until he was caught?

Guys i really don't want to come off as a crazy myself but the wackjobs are gonna kill. Only an armed person can stop them.

[rspurr]

AW,

I'm sure armed guards at schools isn't far off but what percentage of the population is the "right hands"? To me, it should be less than 5% or something like that but this guy's mom had 4 legally licenced weapons. One of them, a semi automatic rifle of some kind. What for?
I supported you argument about having guns in the "right hands" saves lives. There are just way too many in the wrong hands.

We had a school shooting in Taber, Alberta a few years back and you know how many we're killed? One and another wounded. it happened just after Collumbine.
The only weapon at home was a sawed off 22. If handguns were available it would have been much worse, I'm sure.

[rspurr]

Juk. I agree cops and/or retired cops would be better. But who would pay for it? Would they be volunteers like crossing guards?

Please everyone understand i know this is not the time to debate this truly... But when is the time?

Something HAS to be done and fewer guns is not the answer.

Canada has 33 guns per 100 residents (I'm sure a high percentage of which are hunting rifles). The US has 88 per 100 residents.

So do you actually thing handing out 55 guns to every 100 people in Canada would make us safer?

[FRESH]

rspurr, I think you are deflecting and missing AW's point. It's not about just handing out guns to the population, I think you know that.

BTW - My little 4'11 wife can't handle my guns too well, so we had already planned next week to meet with a gun dealer to test fire several hand guns that she might be able to operate more comfortably. Maybe a .380, probably a .22. This incident didn't spur my position on this issue. I have long believed in the right and responsibility of public gun ownership. With my current health situation, it is more important to me than ever the my wife will be able to protect herself when I am not there to do it. You have to either A) Prepare the weaker members of our society to protect themselves, or B) provide that protection for them. In my opinion, the NUMBER ONE WITH A BULLET duty of our government is to provide protection to it's people. You won't do that by taking my gun from me.

[andrewaters]

RS... Hear you but you cannot compare Canada to the U.S.

Hoods, drug dealers, thiefs, etc., by-in-large carry illegally obtained weapons. If handguns become illegal in-home violent crime by illegal gun owners will go up.

Here is an real life example....

I am from Topeka. Rough town for a small town. A few years ago, there was a rash of quik mart liquor store robberies. After 6 or 8 of these, one store owner took his legal gun and shot and killed 2 assailants. There maybe has been 1 since then because the hoods now fear the outcome.

We are really talking about 2 different types of crime. Unfortunately, in the U.S. your kind of gun control would cause a dramatic rise in the other kind of crime. And truth be told, i am not sure you would really alter the outcome of the other type of crime.

A crazy person is going to find a way to kill people. It takes a sane person to stop him.

[FearTheDawk]

AW the idea of arming teachers isn't the best starting point but I agree with it as a last resort. It would be much better to have real security (not the 80 year old retired accountant who puts on a uniform and carries a radio around. That's not security it's the appearance of security!) I'm talking about police officers. Off duty cops or recently retired cops who wear a uniform and carry a gun. 2-3 in a school would be enough to respond immediately to any threat like this. Arming teachers who are trained once or twice a year for the "what if" scenario is asking for trouble. These guys are going to be hyped up and shaking in their boots as they try to remember their training and assess a situation they have only pictured in their heads. Overreactions and mistakes - deadly mistakes - are a likely outcome. This tragedy would be much worse if we learned that some of the kids or adults were shot by a would-be hero who mistakenly fired on the wrong person.

Cops deal with life-death situations every day. They are the first best defense against these types of crimes. Of course adding 2-3 cops in every school costs money our current budgets don't have. I have no doubt that we can cut wasteful spending in our government to pay for it.

Agreed. The Constitution already makes provision for a "well-regulated militia", the National Guard. And it would take the governor ordering it into action for that to happen. Any other regulated, nationalized "force" would probably violate the Posse Comitatus Act, so organizing teachers into some kind of response force won't happen.

But off-duty cops do this kind of work every day. When I was in hotel management, we routinely hired them for plainclothes security. There's a guy in every police force who starts up a "consulting" company and hires out off-duty cops for just this sort of thing. The knowledge that there's a couple of armed cops patrolling the hallways might have some deterrent effect on the next guy who wants to go shoot up a school.

Your mileage may vary..