I's not interested in any more 'Fools Gold'.

[tinopuno]

I'm very glad we won. I hate losing to the Gnats almost as much as losing to Dallas. But I'm not the least bit comforted or reassured.

Foles played well in relief, along with a FEW others. Overall, this team stinks! The Gnats, which may be the worst team in the NFL, literally handed the Birds the game.

The defensive line was the most disappointing unit. Against an aging Giants' Oline that had serious holes to start the season and has since lost 2 starters, the Birds were able to put virtually no pressure on Eli until the late in the 4th quarter when the Gnats seemed to quit as a team. The four teams that had previously beat NY seemed to sack Eli almost at will. He was under constant pressure in every prior game. Whether it's a lack of talent, poor scheme or a combination, the fact that this Dline could not pressure Eli is simply pathetic. Under the circumstances, our much maligned secondary played pretty well. (Boykin is a real 'Keeper'.)

I just finished watching Denver squeak by Dallas, thanks to a classic Romo choke job. We're now tied with Dallas for the NFC East lead at 2-3. Anyone who watched both our game and the Dallas game and thinks we are roughly equivalent in talent on either side of the ball is kidding themself.

[j-bird]

I'm very glad we won. I hate losing to the Gnats almost as much as losing to Dallas. But I'm not the least bit comforted or reassured.

Foles played well in relief, along with a FEW others. Overall, this team stinks! The Gnats, which may be the worst team in the NFL, literally handed the Birds the game.

The defensive line was the most disappointing unit. Against an aging Giants' Oline that had serious holes to start the season and has since lost 2 starters, the Birds were able to put virtually no pressure on Eli until the late in the 4th quarter when the Gnats seemed to quit as a team. The four teams that had previously beat NY seemed to sack Eli almost at will. He was under constant pressure in every prior game. Whether it's a lack of talent, poor scheme or a combination, the fact that this Dline could not pressure Eli is simply pathetic. Under the circumstances, our much maligned secondary played pretty well. (Boykin is a real 'Keeper'.)

I just finished watching Denver squeak by Dallas, thanks to a classic Romo choke job. We're now tied with Dallas for the NFC East lead at 2-3. Anyone who watched both our game and the Dallas game and thinks we are roughly equivalent in talent on either side of the ball is kidding themself.

Normally I'm right there with you Tino but man, get a fuckin grip! I'm tickled pink we;re 2-3 at this point when I KNOW this Club is 2 years away. ANY time you spank the g-strings is a great thing. Does this Club suck? No! They're still trying to figure out alot of things. Win vs TB & we're 3-3! Hang in there Pops!

[Foles4SB]

I too was disappointed in our defensive line until late in the game. Every other team has pressured Eli relentlessly...Giants had a lot of injuries.

We have one QB that can't pass (Vick) and one that can't run (Foles). Can we morph them? I didn't understand Chip throwing like 85% of the time with Foles in the game...it's like he became Andy Reid. The good thing is, a win next week and we are back to 3-3.

[tinopuno]

Normally I'm right there with you Tino but man, get a fuckin grip!

I don't think my reaction is emotional or out of proportion to what I've seen in the first 5 games. I'm not angry, just being objective IMO.

We beat a really awful team today and it was largely because Eli took an enormous crap in his pants. I was very pleased that we won...especially after the way some of the asshole players on the Gnats were overreacting to some early individual success in the game. I despise showboating and it's especially unbecoming when you're on a 0-4 team that has been has been embarrassed week after week.

I saw some things I liked today: I was impressed with Foles and would like to see him start from now on. Both Celek and Jackson played very well and both made big catches (we even had a couple Ertz sightings). Boykin flat out stole a pic with using his instincts/athletic skills and Williams and Flecther held their own despite a terrible lack of pressure on Eli until late in the game. Shady had a decent game but no problem there, he's already proven he's money.

Here's why I say the team stinks. We all feared going into the season that the secondary was going to be a mess and that there were real question marks at 2 of the 3 LBer positions. The D Line we thought would be the relative strength of the defense. They've been OK against the run but have generated very little pressure on the QB since game one...and much of that was by blitzing. The failure to pressure the QB in the previous 3 games was instrumental in exposing a very weak secondary and allowed KC, SD and Denver to move the ball through the air almost at will. The Gnats OLine has been has been a sieve all year and has been further weakened by injury. Eli has been harrassed relentlessly by the 4 teams they played before today. We had every reason to believe the Birds would follow suit. Instead we got almost no pressure until late in the game and a total of 1 sack. That stinks.

At QB we have the athletically gifted and intellectually challenged Mike Vick. He can't read defenses, seems incapable of of passing to an anticipated break, holds the ball forever, is very inconsistent with his accuracy, turns the ball over too much, has an absolute gun but very little touch and seems intent on sacrificing his body to opponents who would gladly maim him. Sometimes he really good, more often he's up and down, sometimes he stinks. He cannotbe depended upon.

I like our 3 RBs. Shady and the Oline is the one real strength of the team.

After the secondary, I think the biggest weakness on this team (and what sets us apart from really competitive teams in a passing dominated NFL is wide receiver. (I've no complaint re: our TE's. Celek is good even if he drops too many and Ertz has a future. Casey...who knows why he here?) After Jackson, who is playing hard and very well, we really have nothing. Our #2 WO is a guy named Reilly Cooper. He reportedly blocks well, which is nice because he can neither run nor catch the ball. Avant, who I really like, remains slow but has now started to drop passes much too frequently. That's it! Jackson can stretch the field but he's slight and short and simply cannot go up and fight for a ball. I can't think of one other team that is considered competitive that doesn't have at least one big reciver who can both run and contest for a high pass. many teams have a couple.


Bottom line: The NFL has become a passing dominated league. We have a decent to good OLine and good RBs. But we also have a very poor pass defense (lousy secondary, mediocre LBers and a weak pass rushing DLine). On the offensive side of the all important passing game we've got a mediocre QB, decent TEs and nothing after Jackson at the all important WO position. If you accept the overwhelming consensus that in today's NFL an effective passing game and, conversely, an effective pass defense are both essential to success than, IMHO, this team stinks.

Little Howie says we're not rebulding, 'Were retooling'. I say Little Howie is full of shit! And thanks in no small part to GM Howie for his moves and non-moves, we stink!

II'll say it again. I despise Jerry Jones and the Dallas Cowboys with every fiber of my being and it pains me greatly to admit this. But they are a better team right now than the Birds. As much as I, and everyone else breaks balls on Jerry as a terrible GM, the sad truth is that he's built a more talented team over the past 5 years than out Front Office brain trust.

[FairOaks]

Vick struggled in the passing game, but got things going with his legs. The issue (again) was red zone play; if we had scored more TDs there in the first half the game might have been about salted away by then. We did rack up some yards though.

Foles struggled for a couple series there but ended up better, and cashed in the turnovers for TDs -- that was heartening. I suspect that once Vick went out, the Giants keyed on LeSean and dared Foles to beat them through the air -- which is probably why Kelly went pass-heavy. They do have some decent DL left (or maybe signed... Mike Patterson and Cullen Jenkins).

Accurate QBs tend to give our defense fits, and Eli can be accurate from time to time, and I suspected he would have some success this game. I definitely agree the most long-term disheartening thing was the play of the DL -- the Giants OL had been porous and we really never got pressure. I know they made some OL adjustments but I still thought we'd get to Eli fairly frequently and prevent him from being consistently successful. We did OK versus their run game though, and overall the defense had decent stretches of playing well (along with stretches of looking like last week).

In the end, I'm glad we are better than the Giants. We did deserve to win that game. We have some serious flaws. Given a bit of luck, we might even compete in the woeful division, though it might take Romo regressing to his November/December norms for that to happen.

[Eagle60]

Normally I'm right there with you Tino but man, get a fuckin grip! I'm tickled pink we;re 2-3 at this point when I KNOW this Club is 2 years away. ANY time you spank the g-strings is a great thing. Does this Club suck? No! They're still trying to figure out alot of things. Win vs TB & we're 3-3! Hang in there Pops!

Two years away from what J? There is no young Donovan McNabb on this roster. Cox and Kendricks look worse each week. At least Ertz looked a little better today, but who are all these young superstars that you see? I think you're kidding yourself Bud.

[FRESH]

You are right about our lack of talent at wr, but would you feel differently if Maclin were playing? How much better might we be?

I don't think my reaction is emotional or out of proportion to what I've seen in the first 5 games. I'm not angry, just being objective IMO.

We beat a really awful team today and it was largely because Eli took an enormous crap in his pants. I was very pleased that we won...especially after the way some of the asshole players on the Gnats were overreacting to some early individual success in the game. I despise showboating and it's especially unbecoming when you're on a 0-4 team that has been has been embarrassed week after week.

I saw some things I liked today: I was impressed with Foles and would like to see him start from now on. Both Celek and Jackson played very well and both made big catches (we even had a couple Ertz sightings). Boykin flat out stole a pic with using his instincts/athletic skills and Williams and Flecther held their own despite a terrible lack of pressure on Eli until late in the game. Shady had a decent game but no problem there, he's already proven he's money.

Here's why I say the team stinks. We all feared going into the season that the secondary was going to be a mess and that there were real question marks at 2 of the 3 LBer positions. The D Line we thought would be the relative strength of the defense. They've been OK against the run but have generated very little pressure on the QB since game one...and much of that was by blitzing. The failure to pressure the QB in the previous 3 games was instrumental in exposing a very weak secondary and allowed KC, SD and Denver to move the ball through the air almost at will. The Gnats OLine has been has been a sieve all year and has been further weakened by injury. Eli has been harrassed relentlessly by the 4 teams they played before today. We had every reason to believe the Birds would follow suit. Instead we got almost no pressure until late in the game and a total of 1 sack. That stinks.

At QB we have the athletically gifted and intellectually challenged Mike Vick. He can't read defenses, seems incapable of of passing to an anticipated break, holds the ball forever, is very inconsistent with his accuracy, turns the ball over too much, has an absolute gun but very little touch and seems intent on sacrificing his body to opponents who would gladly maim him. Sometimes he really good, more often he's up and down, sometimes he stinks. He cannotbe depended upon.

I like our 3 RBs. Shady and the Oline is the one real strength of the team.

After the secondary, I think the biggest weakness on this team (and what sets us apart from really competitive teams in a passing dominated NFL is wide receiver. (I've no complaint re: our TE's. Celek is good even if he drops too many and Ertz has a future. Casey...who knows why he here?) After Jackson, who is playing hard and very well, we really have nothing. Our #2 WO is a guy named Reilly Cooper. He reportedly blocks well, which is nice because he can neither run nor catch the ball. Avant, who I really like, remains slow but has now started to drop passes much too frequently. That's it! Jackson can stretch the field but he's slight and short and simply cannot go up and fight for a ball. I can't think of one other team that is considered competitive that doesn't have at least one big reciver who can both run and contest for a high pass. many teams have a couple.


Bottom line: The NFL has become a passing dominated league. We have a decent to good OLine and good RBs. But we also have a very poor pass defense (lousy secondary, mediocre LBers and a weak pass rushing DLine). On the offensive side of the all important passing game we've got a mediocre QB, decent TEs and nothing after Jackson at the all important WO position. If you accept the overwhelming consensus that in today's NFL an effective passing game and, conversely, an effective pass defense are both essential to success than, IMHO, this team stinks.

Little Howie says we're not rebulding, 'Were retooling'. I say Little Howie is full of shit! And thanks in no small part to GM Howie for his moves and non-moves, we stink!

II'll say it again. I despise Jerry Jones and the Dallas Cowboys with every fiber of my being and it pains me greatly to admit this. But they are a better team right now than the Birds. As much as I, and everyone else breaks balls on Jerry as a terrible GM, the sad truth is that he's built a more talented team over the past 5 years than out Front Office brain trust.

[Jukin]

I'm very glad we won. I hate losing to the Gnats almost as much as losing to Dallas. But I'm not the least bit comforted or reassured.

Foles played well in relief, along with a FEW others. Overall, this team stinks! The Gnats, which may be the worst team in the NFL, literally handed the Birds the game.

The defensive line was the most disappointing unit. Against an aging Giants' Oline that had serious holes to start the season and has since lost 2 starters, the Birds were able to put virtually no pressure on Eli until the late in the 4th quarter when the Gnats seemed to quit as a team. The four teams that had previously beat NY seemed to sack Eli almost at will. He was under constant pressure in every prior game. Whether it's a lack of talent, poor scheme or a combination, the fact that this Dline could not pressure Eli is simply pathetic. Under the circumstances, our much maligned secondary played pretty well. (Boykin is a real 'Keeper'.)

I just finished watching Denver squeak by Dallas, thanks to a classic Romo choke job. We're now tied with Dallas for the NFC East lead at 2-3. Anyone who watched both our game and the Dallas game and thinks we are roughly equivalent in talent on either side of the ball is kidding themself.

Boy I hate it when I agree with you tino, but you are 100% dead on with this statement. With each passing game I feel more and more that Davis is not going to be the guy to turn this team into a defensive juggernaut. I know it's only 5 games and he's changing the defense in a way that could not possibly be more different than what was here before. he doesn't have the players to run a 3-4 yet and the guys he does have are not the most talented group to start with either. I know to be fair, I need to give him at least a full year before bitching about the defense.

But when I see bad game planning and a lack of aggression in the play calling I get very concerned. Is he afraid to blitz because it will expose the weak secondary to more passes or is it just his approach to playing D?

The lack of quality defensive players on this team is down right scary. I know I can't pin the blame for that on Chip or on Davis and while Roseman is certainly more responsible than they are, also know that Andy and Banner still bare some responsibility for leaving the team in the shambles they did. Roseman can only fix so many holes at once and this team had plenty of them!

The bottom line is that I'd rather see them get a higher draft pick than make the playoffs or even finish 2-3 in the division. I know that attitude pisses off some people here but I tend to look at the big picture and planning for the future rather than the current season. This is a team that can use a lot of help; especially on defense. Get a top 3 pick and go for a franchise QB followed by defensive players the rest of the way and let's start building for sustained success. Give Chip and Billy D the tools they need and see if they have the skills to use those tools well. If they do we have a winner! IF they don't we know where the problem is and we can make changes at the top to quickly turn it around. But you have to have talent on the field for the guys on the sidelines to be effective. Case and point, Andy couldn't win more than 4 games with this team last year. He goes to KC and is 5-0 already.

Let's get the players and see if the coaches have the ability to turn this thing around. IMO, in the long term, loosing in the short term would be a very good thing to see what we really have here.

[FRESH]

Two years away from what J? There is no young Donovan McNabb on this roster. Cox and Kendricks look worse each week. At least Ertz looked a little better today, but who are all these young superstars that you see? I think you're kidding yourself Bud.

Kendricks had a pretty damned good game, popper.

[tinopuno]

You are right about our lack of talent at wr, but would you feel differently if Maclin were playing? How much better might we be?

Maclin would certainly help! When healthy he is a very good #2. I would not put him in the category of 'big, fast WOs who can contest effectively
for the pass' most other teams now posses. And Maclin has an HX of getting injured.

The fact the Howie (and Chip?) were content with what was left on the shelf AFTER Maclin went down early in camp is very troubling and is reminiscent of the almost childish optimism regarding unproven player performance that existed under AR. Was there any effort to replace Maclin? Not that I recall. Now you just don't go out and sign a #1 but there was talent out there to be looked at. Who considered Cooper capable of qualifying as a legit #2 opposite Jackson? Nobody on this board and probably nobody outside the Bird's FO.

[sfphillyfan]

This team has a LONG way to go but I don't think this is considered fool's gold. Fools gold was the ridiciulous wins at the end of 2011 that convinced Lurie to bring back Andy and Co.

This is just a win that people shouldn't put too much stock in but is still a win. All these games, where we get to evaluate our team are good games, win or lose. Chip gets this year to experiment and evaluate. He better be at least 8-8 next year.

As for WRs, they should have cut Riley dumbass cooper even before the racial incident. Get some intriguing lower round draft picks and see if we can find a diamond in the rough. This team stinks, why bother with Cooper, Avant, Celek? See what the young guys can do.

[andrewaters]

Great points all.

What this defense needs is 2 trained killers. One on the edge as a pass rusher in the Aldon Smith/Demarcus Ware role.

And another trained killer in the secondary that can lifht up receivers over the middle, has range, and intelligence... Basically a young Dawkins.

On offense, i think Foles is the better option. Vick just cannot read defenses and process things fast enough. Foles is really not the guy either for Kelly bcause he wants a guy that can run some.

That all said with his height and knack for aliding inthe pocket, i think Foles is the better option.

[sfphillyfan]

tino - you wanted me to fix the thread title for you right?

[stocknowledge]

Nah. He's working on his Ebonics skills.

[tinopuno]

tino - you wanted me to fix the thread title for you right?

Yah suh! Now you gots it jes right!

(sotto voce) "Prick!"


Just kidding! Your change was perfect!! I believe I's gonna use dat style from now on!!