Who is running this franchise

[fly]

I'm not trying to just start a new rant thread, but seriously have some questions as to which individuals are making the "football decisions" for this franchise. A very brief history:

1. Brian Dawkins: Andy says that he wants Dawk back ... and we all know the story here. There are some disputed details (ie, was Dawk actually even offered a contract?) ... but Dawk was gone.

2. Donovan Mcsomething or other: Andy says he's the starting QB for the Eagles ... gone.

3. Kevin Kolb is the starting QB ... done. It's Vick

This whole thing now makes me question who made the Donovan decision ... who made the Vick decision.

Now I've been pretty vocal in support of Kolb, but I did allow for the scenario that Andy wasn't comfortable with Kolb (and maybe didn't make the Donovan decision). My confidence in Kolb is shattered. My confidence in this franchise is shaky.

I can only hope that Andy actually did make all these decisions because let's face it, Andy is the only one qualified to say who should be on the field. Otherwise this franchise is headed in the tank.

Ok...maybe that was a rant.

[Eagle60]

I'm not trying to just start a new rant thread, but seriously have some questions as to which individuals are making the "football decisions" for this franchise. A very brief history:

1. Brian Dawkins: Andy says that he wants Dawk back ... and we all know the story here. There are some disputed details (ie, was Dawk actually even offered a contract?) ... but Dawk was gone.

2. Donovan Mcsomething or other: Andy says he's the starting QB for the Eagles ... gone.

3. Kevin Kolb is the starting QB ... done. It's Vick

This whole thing now makes me question who made the Donovan decision ... who made the Vick decision.

Now I've been pretty vocal in support of Kolb, but I did allow for the scenario that Andy wasn't comfortable with Kolb (and maybe didn't make the Donovan decision). My confidence in Kolb is shattered. My confidence in this franchise is shaky.

I can only hope that Andy actually did make all these decisions because let's face it, Andy is the only one qualified to say who should be on the field. Otherwise this franchise is headed in the tank.

Ok...maybe that was a rant.

Honestly fly, Reid had no choice. None. Vick has been playing lights out.

[FRESH]

It's a good post, and this latest Vick move is only one that we might question, as fly has pointed out.

Things have been changing around here. Would we have possibly let Dawk go if JJ had been in a condition to fight for him? Is there and understandable way that Andy could have wanted Dawk gone? Or was it purely a money decision(something Andy wouldn't care about) . It's not like we had the next great all-Pro safety waiting in the wings.......Sorry, I'll never understand why a football guy would be OK with letting Dawk walk.

Then on to McNabb. There were some rumblings heard and rumored form the younguns in the locker room. Lurie might have felt that Donny never delivered his championship and he wanted to move on. I dunno. Reid was Donovan's chief supporter for a decade. What...he just changed his mind??

It's all speculation, and we'll never likely know the truth and the details. But it does make you wonder what influences have been exerted over the last couple of years. How about the Bobby April signing??? Was that a Daniel Snyder-esque occurance? Perhaps Andy's chain has been shortened since 2004-5?

[Leonard Tose]

This is what I believe, for what it's worth:

-- Andy Reid was extremely reluctant to trade Donovan McNabb

-- Joe Banner, his lackey Howie Roseman and Jeff Lurie were all ready to transition to Kolb.

-- Reid had to be persuaded, strong-armed a bit, and he finally got on board and they pulled the trigger.

-- Reid may have said all the right things about Kolb, but he's always loved Michael Vick and been incredibly intrigued by the chance to work with him.

-- Reid likes Kolb, but he's not nearly as tied to him as he was to Donovan McNabb. He's not ready to take lumps for a couple of years and believes his team is ready to win right now.

-- The decision to go to Vick is Reid's alone, and he may pay for it with his job if it blows up.

[Eagle60]

This is what I believe, for what it's worth:

-- Andy Reid was extremely reluctant to trade Donovan McNabb

-- Joe Banner, his lackey Howie Roseman and Jeff Lurie were all ready to transition to Kolb.

-- Reid had to be persuaded, strong-armed a bit, and he finally got on board and they pulled the trigger.

-- Reid may have said all the right things about Kolb, but he's always loved Michael Vick and been incredibly intrigued by the chance to work with him.

-- Reid likes Kolb, but he's not nearly as tied to him as he was to Donovan McNabb. He's not ready to take lumps for a couple of years and believes his team is ready to win right now.

-- The decision to go to Vick is Reid's alone, and he may pay for it with his job if it blows up.

Sounds like a plan LT. I think he really likes Kolb too. It sounds like all3 have a great relationship.

[fly]

This is what I believe, for what it's worth:

-- Andy Reid was extremely reluctant to trade Donovan McNabb

-- Joe Banner, his lackey Howie Roseman and Jeff Lurie were all ready to transition to Kolb.

-- Reid had to be persuaded, strong-armed a bit, and he finally got on board and they pulled the trigger.

-- Reid may have said all the right things about Kolb, but he's always loved Michael Vick and been incredibly intrigued by the chance to work with him.

-- Reid likes Kolb, but he's not nearly as tied to him as he was to Donovan McNabb. He's not ready to take lumps for a couple of years and believes his team is ready to win right now.

-- The decision to go to Vick is Reid's alone, and he may pay for it with his job if it blows up.

The stuff I highlighted in blue was the only thing I've been concerned with about Kolb. While part of why I believed in Kolb was last year against NO and KC, a big part was thinking that Andy drafted him and saw enough in him to trade Donovan. That was enough to convince me to trust AR. I never really believed that stuff I highlighted until tonight. I'm really not a conspiracy theorist kind of person at all, but my first reaction to this move was LTs final thought here -- Reid was like, "F all of you ... I'm going with Vick. Don't like it? Fire me."

And honestly, I'd rather it be that than Andy doing his best Rich Kotite puppet impersonation. I may be in the minority, but I like Big Red. I trust his football intelligence. He is NOT the best gameday coach, but I don't think it's a coincidence that he won all those games.

Radio people think Andy may have been strongarmed into starting Vick, but I kind of wonder if Andy really did call this shot against the opinions of others.

[eagle eye]

Radio people think Andy may have been strongarmed into starting Vick, but I kind of wonder if Andy really did call this shot against the opinions of others.

I just came across this from pft

Andy Reid: "Michael Vick is playing out of his mind right now"

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on September 21, 2010 7:31 PM ET
Like so many football junkies, Andy Reid was a huge Michael Vick fan before he ever heard about Bad Newz Kennels. The thought of coaching Vick reportedly had Reid "salivating" once Vick got out of prison.

That's why Reid pushed the Eagles to sign Vick last offseason. (Seriously, go back and read this great Philadelphia Inquirer piece on it.)

After watching the Michael Vick Experience 2.0 up close the last two weeks, Reid couldn't bear to put his new toy back on the shelf.

"Michael Vick is playing out of his mind right now, and that's a beautiful thing," Reid said Tuesday during his press conference to announce Vick would be the Eagles starting quarterback indefinitely.

Reid stressed this wasn't a decision about Kevin Kolb's poor first half against the Packers in the season opener. (Reid also noted Kolb is fully recovered from his concussion now.) It was about Vick's surprising progress the last two weeks, which had Reid drooling.

Reid called Vick "one of the best quarterback right now in the National Football League." Reid said Vick was "brilliant" and that he's playing at one of the higher levels Reid has seen.

To Reid, this is plain for anyone to see.

"The team saw the great play of Michael Vick -- like you saw and I saw," Reid said.

Reid is right. Vick has played exceptional football the last two weeks. He's made difficult throws into tight windows. He seems to have matured as a decision maker and passer. The legs are back. The biggest worry: Vick has always been a streaky quarterback and he's played only six quarters, with four against the Lions.

This wasn't the plan, of course. If it was, the team wouldn't have handed Kolb a hefty contract extension this offseason. Reid says the team can still win a Super Bowl with Kolb, and vainly tried to make the case this will help Kolb's maturation. Reid spoke with Kolb twice over the last two days and a trade is not a consideration.

"[Kevin] wants to be the starting quarterback of the Philadelphia Eagles," Reid said. "But he's also a team player. He accepted it but I'm not gonna tell you he doesn't want to be the starting quarterback of the Philadelphia Eagles."

Reid kept stressing what a great situation it was to have two quality quarterbacks. But it's clear that Vick is the one that makes Reid giddy.

"Very few quarterbacks can go out and play the way [Vick] played the last few weeks," Reid said. (Like, say, Kevin Kolb?)

The Eagles coach ended the press conference by saying that Vick was "back, and maybe even a little bit better" than before.

Spoken like a true fan.

I can't remember AR gushing over anybody like this. He's got some major man love for Vick and to me it seems obvious from this it totally was Reid's decision.

[Leonard Tose]

The stuff I highlighted in blue was the only thing I've been concerned with about Kolb. While part of why I believed in Kolb was last year against NO and KC, a big part was thinking that Andy drafted him and saw enough in him to trade Donovan. That was enough to convince me to trust AR. I never really believed that stuff I highlighted until tonight. I'm really not a conspiracy theorist kind of person at all, but my first reaction to this move was LTs final thought here -- Reid was like, "F all of you ... I'm going with Vick. Don't like it? Fire me."

And honestly, I'd rather it be that than Andy doing his best Rich Kotite puppet impersonation. I may be in the minority, but I like Big Red. I trust his football intelligence. He is NOT the best gameday coach, but I don't think it's a coincidence that he won all those games.

Radio people think Andy may have been strongarmed into starting Vick, but I kind of wonder if Andy really did call this shot against the opinions of others.

Absolutely agree. If it is a showdown situation with the front office, you want the coach going all in. I dont think for a minute that Big Red would go along with the scenario that's being put out, that it was forced on him.

But I also think that this could be Big Red's last stand here. If this falls apart, it could be the end of Reid.

[fly]

Absolutely agree. If it is a showdown situation with the front office, you want the coach going all in. I dont think for a minute that Big Red would go along with the scenario that's being put out, that it was forced on him.

But I also think that this could be Big Red's last stand here. If this falls apart, it could be the end of Reid.

If Andy doesn't trust Kolb, does it matter? Why would Reid want to hang around if he had Kolb thrust upon him? My point there is basically your point there ... that if Reid's going down he's doing it his way.

Reid would get another NFL head coaching gig in a nanosecond if he were fired. Not saying he wouldn't take a year off or something, but there are probably 20 teams that would be tracking him down.

[12dickau4pres]

Fly -
I would also add, benching McNabb at Baltimore and Signing Vick in the first place - who made those decisions

-- Reid likes Kolb, but he's not nearly as tied to him as he was to Donovan McNabb. He's not ready to take lumps for a couple of years and believes his team is ready to win right now.

This is what I will never understand, why did they pick Kolb in the first place? No one said they HAD to pick a quarterback in the second round, no one would have blinked an eye if they picked another position (like one of need); and if you are going to, while you still had a qb in his prime, you better be on board.

[sfphillyfan]

If this is totally Reid's decision, I hope either we win the Super Bowl or the whole damn thing blows up in his face and he and Vick can both go to Cleveland next year.

This whole thing is trying my patience as a fan.

I've always thought: "ok, we can question what they do down there in South Philly but we have to trust that since they eat sleep and breathe this stuff that they have much more knowledge than we do and they must be making more informed decisions. After all, these are not stupid men."

But now, I'm not so sure they have a fucking clue what's going on. Knee jerk reactions are for the media and fans, not from head coaches.

[fly]

Vin - my whole thinking here is that this is not a knee jerk reaction. Reid had to fall in line and anoint Kolb the starter ... then Vick actually started playing well. So Reid ditches Kolb and basically tells Lurie/Banner/Roseman where they can shove it.

The more I type this the more ridiculous it sounds. But honestly, everything sounds crazy right now so why is the above scenario not just as realistic?

[Pliny]

I don't like Andy the game day coach. But, I love how he runs this team. The man does what he thinks is best. And, he is usually correct.

The Philly media normally eats head coaches as a light snack. Andy Reid could fill their little media bellies for a decade. But, he gives them nothing. Andy and Buddy are the only coaches that have been strong enough to handle the Philly media.

[sfphillyfan]

Shit, fly, at this point, logic has gone out the window. If you told me that the Eagles were exploring a trade for TO and TO said only if Vick was the starting QB, I'd have to think long and hard before I dismissed the possibility.

The way that Reid was shuttling Vick in and out of the lineup vs GB, maybe he was hoping Kolb would fail so he could tell his corporate overlords to shove it and start Vick.

I'm so confused.

[fly]

Shit, fly, at this point, logic has gone out the window. If you told me that the Eagles were exploring a trade for TO and TO said only if Vick was the starting QB, I'd have to think long and hard before I dismissed the possibility.

The way that Reid was shuttling Vick in and out of the lineup vs GB, maybe he was hoping Kolb would fail so he could tell his corporate overlords to shove it and start Vick.

I'm so confused.

No vin ... you actually make perfect sense!

What an entertaining start to the season ... and you've reminded me that I've got to get my ready!