Chinese Fire Drill

[stocknowledge]

After nine years of head coaching experience here, you would think that Andy Reid and his team would have learned how to run an effective two-minute offense. Lord knows how many close games the Eagles have had during Reid's tenure here. Still, our last-minute offenses always resemble Chinese fire drills, where we fritter away time, make stupid mistakes, and run the most illogical plays.

Yesterday, after Westbrook made an amazing return of a punt to set us up with 1:16 remaining on the opponent's 16-yard line, we bumbled the drive and lost a game that could easily have been a win. -- You could bet money that Belichek's Patriots wouldn't have let this game get away from them, but we coughed it up -- which is why Belichek will be in the hall of fame, and Andy Reid will only have nice memories.

Certainly, you could fault Feeley for trying to make a play and instead taking a sack, which cost us 26 seconds of game time and a loss of one yard. However, Feeley should have been coached up before the play with a few simple cautionary words "IF THE PLAY ISN"T THERE, GET RID OF THE BALL. DON'T TAKE A SACK." I don't think the coaching staff gave Feeley that advice.

If that first play wasn't dumb enough, the second play almost had me throwing my shoe through the television screen.
With 50 seconds left to play and the ball on the 15-yard line, we run Buckhalter (who should have been used more often during the earlier stages of the game) on a draw play up the middle. Sure, we gained 4 yards on the play, but we wasted 27 seconds and ran the clock down to 23 seconds. Perhaps more importantly, we forced the offense to hurry up to the line and rushed an inexperienced QB to make an even hastier decision on the next play than he probably already would have made. The point being that Feeley may not have thrown the last interception if he had been able to slow things down a bit in getting to the next (and ultimately final) play of the day.

I have hesitated this year in criticizing Reid's coaching, but yesterday reminded me of how poor a game coach he really is. And, we will probably never win a Super Bowl until we figure out how to run an effective two-minute offense.

[Leonard Tose]

Re: Chinese Fire Drill

my beef with Big Red from yesterday is from the lousy decision to go for it at the end of the 1st half.

they kick that FG, and all the Eagles have to do after Westbrook returns the punt is run a few plays and wind the clock down.

and no, i wasnt in favor of going for it on 4th down at the 1 before the play was run.

[saratoga]

Re: Chinese Fire Drill

my beef with Big Red from yesterday is from the lousy decision to go for it at the end of the 1st half.

they kick that FG, and all the Eagles have to do after Westbrook returns the punt is run a few plays and wind the clock down.

and no, i wasnt in favor of going for it on 4th down at the 1 before the play was run.

You are right, and that would have been acceptable to me.

I did want Reid to go for the TD to end the half, but I wanted a QB sneak, not a hand off. But again, he out thought himself.

Stock, you are quite right. After all of these years, Reid should be better than this. But he is not, and I doubt at this point that we will ever see him improve on this.

[eaglefan55]

Re: Chinese Fire Drill

my beef with Big Red from yesterday is from the lousy decision to go for it at the end of the 1st half.

they kick that FG, and all the Eagles have to do after Westbrook returns the punt is run a few plays and wind the clock down.

and no, i wasnt in favor of going for it on 4th down at the 1 before the play was run.

You are right, and that would have been acceptable to me.

I did want Reid to go for the TD to end the half, but I wanted a QB sneak, not a hand off. But again, he out thought himself.

Stock, you are quite right. After all of these years, Reid should be better than this. But he is not, and I doubt at this point that we will ever see him improve on this.

Looking back in hind sight the 4th & goal call could have cost us the game, but I was kind of ok with it when it happened. Throwing 4 picks cost us the game though, we recovered a fumble and had an int, so we essentially gave them 2 additional drives to work with.

[Soaring Eagle]

Re: Chinese Fire Drill

Yes, the Eagles should have had a better plan with 1:16 left.
The first pass was a self-inflicted sack by Feeley running out
of the pocket for no good reason. You would expect the coaches
to make sure he was going to throw the ball away if there was
pressure and nothing there. Same on the last play.

The 1st & goal at the end of the 1st half was a risky choice
but I was OK with it. I thought the play-calling there stunk
with a pass on 2nd & goal and no QB sneaks. It would have
been very difficult for the Hags to stop a couple of QB sneak
attempts behind Andrews but we did not even try that high
percentage play. Sometimes Marty & Reid are complete dolts
trying to outthink the opponent rather than dictating to them.
They really haven't used the OL well this year in stark comparison
to the late season run last year.

[YourPalChrisMal]

Re: Chinese Fire Drill

my beef with Big Red from yesterday is from the lousy decision to go for it at the end of the 1st half.

they kick that FG, and all the Eagles have to do after Westbrook returns the punt is run a few plays and wind the clock down.

and no, i wasnt in favor of going for it on 4th down at the 1 before the play was run.

Why was it a lousy call? I think a majority of people (experts and fans alike) would tell you that at the end of the half with about 1 INCH to go, you should go for the kill. It wasn't even a full yard. A team that can't push the pile forward even 1 INCH doesn't really deserve to score. If you want to critisize it, critisize the play call which I thought was questionable. Even on the goal line, a team trying to score from 1 inch out should be able to do it almost every time. (As a side-note, that was always a huge benefit of McNabb - he was big enough that he could give enough push and fall over to get an inch 99% of the time.)

[Green With Envy]

Re: Chinese Fire Drill

After nine years of head coaching experience here, you would think that Andy Reid and his team would have learned how to run an effective two-minute offense. Lord knows how many close games the Eagles have had during Reid's tenure here. Still, our last-minute offenses always resemble Chinese fire drills, where we fritter away time, make stupid mistakes, and run the most illogical plays.

Yesterday, after Westbrook made an amazing return of a punt to set us up with 1:16 remaining on the opponent's 16-yard line, we bumbled the drive and lost a game that could easily have been a win. -- You could bet money that Belichek's Patriots wouldn't have let this game get away from them, but we coughed it up -- which is why Belichek will be in the hall of fame, and Andy Reid will only have nice memories.

Certainly, you could fault Feeley for trying to make a play and instead taking a sack, which cost us 26 seconds of game time and a loss of one yard. However, Feeley should have been coached up before the play with a few simple cautionary words "IF THE PLAY ISN"T THERE, GET RID OF THE BALL. DON'T TAKE A SACK." I don't think the coaching staff gave Feeley that advice.

If that first play wasn't dumb enough, the second play almost had me throwing my shoe through the television screen.
With 50 seconds left to play and the ball on the 15-yard line, we run Buckhalter (who should have been used more often during the earlier stages of the game) on a draw play up the middle. Sure, we gained 4 yards on the play, but we wasted 27 seconds and ran the clock down to 23 seconds. Perhaps more importantly, we forced the offense to hurry up to the line and rushed an inexperienced QB to make an even hastier decision on the next play than he probably already would have made. The point being that Feeley may not have thrown the last interception if he had been able to slow things down a bit in getting to the next (and ultimately final) play of the day.

I have hesitated this year in criticizing Reid's coaching, but yesterday reminded me of how poor a game coach he really is. And, we will probably never win a Super Bowl until we figure out how to run an effective two-minute offense.

Sorry, I put this loss on Feeley more than Reid. Feeley is not inexperianced, he's a 8 year vet. Everyone knows you throw the ball away. That first down play was a killer. With regards to the 4th down play in the first half, I agreed with Reid to go for it, but I thought the play should have been a QB sneak. The Seahawks have a fast D-line and the play to Westbrook took too long to develop.

Let's get this straight, this may not have been the best coached game but Feeley threw 4 bad interceptions. Not interceptions where the D player made a great play but four interceptions right into their arms. That's what lost us the game, period. This game was lost by the QB play.

[Leonard Tose]

Re: Chinese Fire Drill

my beef with Big Red from yesterday is from the lousy decision to go for it at the end of the 1st half.

they kick that FG, and all the Eagles have to do after Westbrook returns the punt is run a few plays and wind the clock down.

and no, i wasnt in favor of going for it on 4th down at the 1 before the play was run.

Why was it a lousy call? I think a majority of people (experts and fans alike) would tell you that at the end of the half with about 1 INCH to go, you should go for the kill. It wasn't even a full yard. A team that can't push the pile forward even 1 INCH doesn't really deserve to score. If you want to critisize it, critisize the play call which I thought was questionable. Even on the goal line, a team trying to score from 1 inch out should be able to do it almost every time. (As a side-note, that was always a huge benefit of McNabb - he was big enough that he could give enough push and fall over to get an inch 99% of the time.)

i didn't see it as a "go for the kill" situation, not in a game where there had been a lot of scoring to that point and some lead changes, if i recall correctly.

in those kinds of games, i think it's important to answer back as often as possible and not leave scoring chances on the table just because it looks like scoring won't be a problem. as it turned out, things tightened up considerably in the second half.

i dont believe in those referendums on teams where "if you can't do X at this point, you don't deserve to win." i believe you should score as many points as possible and don't waste opportunities to score. that's what they did yesterday, they wasted an opportunity. since they lost by four, it was a pretty important three points.

i think if you ask Big Red privately, he'd probably say he regrets doing that down there, and not just because it didn't work and because they only lost by four.

[Leonard Tose]

Re: Chinese Fire Drill

After nine years of head coaching experience here, you would think that Andy Reid and his team would have learned how to run an effective two-minute offense. Lord knows how many close games the Eagles have had during Reid's tenure here. Still, our last-minute offenses always resemble Chinese fire drills, where we fritter away time, make stupid mistakes, and run the most illogical plays.

Yesterday, after Westbrook made an amazing return of a punt to set us up with 1:16 remaining on the opponent's 16-yard line, we bumbled the drive and lost a game that could easily have been a win. -- You could bet money that Belichek's Patriots wouldn't have let this game get away from them, but we coughed it up -- which is why Belichek will be in the hall of fame, and Andy Reid will only have nice memories.

Certainly, you could fault Feeley for trying to make a play and instead taking a sack, which cost us 26 seconds of game time and a loss of one yard. However, Feeley should have been coached up before the play with a few simple cautionary words "IF THE PLAY ISN"T THERE, GET RID OF THE BALL. DON'T TAKE A SACK." I don't think the coaching staff gave Feeley that advice.

If that first play wasn't dumb enough, the second play almost had me throwing my shoe through the television screen.
With 50 seconds left to play and the ball on the 15-yard line, we run Buckhalter (who should have been used more often during the earlier stages of the game) on a draw play up the middle. Sure, we gained 4 yards on the play, but we wasted 27 seconds and ran the clock down to 23 seconds. Perhaps more importantly, we forced the offense to hurry up to the line and rushed an inexperienced QB to make an even hastier decision on the next play than he probably already would have made. The point being that Feeley may not have thrown the last interception if he had been able to slow things down a bit in getting to the next (and ultimately final) play of the day.

I have hesitated this year in criticizing Reid's coaching, but yesterday reminded me of how poor a game coach he really is. And, we will probably never win a Super Bowl until we figure out how to run an effective two-minute offense.

Sorry, I put this loss on Feeley more than Reid. Feeley is not inexperianced, he's a 8 year vet. Everyone knows you throw the ball away. That first down play was a killer. With regards to the 4th down play in the first half, I agreed with Reid to go for it, but I thought the play should have been a QB sneak. The Seahawks have a fast D-line and the play to Westbrook took too long to develop.

Let's get this straight, this may not have been the best coached game but Feeley threw 4 bad interceptions. Not interceptions where the D player made a great play but four interceptions right into their arms. That's what lost us the game, period. This game was lost by the QB play.

agreed. those were some awful INT's. just awful decisions. i said after the patriot game that you can see why he's a career backup -- to me, he was far too excitable in that game. there's no excuse for throwing the ball three times at Lofa Tatupu.

[YourPalChrisMal]

Re: Chinese Fire Drill

[quote=Leonard Tose]

my beef with Big Red from yesterday is from the lousy decision to go for it at the end of the 1st half.

they kick that FG, and all the Eagles have to do after Westbrook returns the punt is run a few plays and wind the clock down.

and no, i wasnt in favor of going for it on 4th down at the 1 before the play was run.

Why was it a lousy call? I think a majority of people (experts and fans alike) would tell you that at the end of the half with about 1 INCH to go, you should go for the kill. It wasn't even a full yard. A team that can't push the pile forward even 1 INCH doesn't really deserve to score. If you want to critisize it, critisize the play call which I thought was questionable. Even on the goal line, a team trying to score from 1 inch out should be able to do it almost every time. (As a side-note, that was always a huge benefit of McNabb - he was big enough that he could give enough push and fall over to get an inch 99% of the time.)

i didn't see it as a "go for the kill" situation, not in a game where there had been a lot of scoring to that point and some lead changes, if i recall correctly.

in those kinds of games, i think it's important to answer back as often as possible and not leave scoring chances on the table just because it looks like scoring won't be a problem. as it turned out, things tightened up considerably in the second half.

i dont believe in those referendums on teams where "if you can't do X at this point, you don't deserve to win." i believe you should score as many points as possible and don't waste opportunities to score. that's what they did yesterday, they wasted an opportunity. since they lost by four, it was a pretty important three points.

i think if you ask Big Red privately, he'd probably say he regrets doing that down there, and not just because it didn't work and because they only lost by four.[/quote:a0ac0]

Don't agree. Any time an inch separates you from getting 7 points vs. just 3 points, mathematics say that going for 7 makes more sense.

Gaining an inch at the goal line has to be about a 95% likely score. Kicking a FG from the 1 inch line has to be 99%. So you are going to pass up 4 point over 4% less odds? I still say that's a bad decision if you just kick the field goal.

[Theo]

Re: Chinese Fire Drill

The only problem I had with the last drive of the game was Feeley not throwing the ball away on first down.

Oh..and the interception :P

The draw play on second down.....I didn't have a problem with running a draw there. Well, I did, but more because it wasn't Westbrook they gave the ball to. If it was a draw to West I would have been fine with it. But a draw to Buck there wasn't a smart move. Time wise, I thought it was fine. They still had plenty of time and no need to rush since they were playing on a short field. The next play Feely screwed up because he simply stared Brown down from the minute he got the ball from center and it cost him.

[sonnyj]

Re: Chinese Fire Drill

short yardage situations were a problem last year. Westbrook was stopped many a time last year and this year at the goal line and on 3d and shorts. That's why we drafted Hunt. No problem going for the TD there. Just how they did it. On a wet field. Defense keying on 36. Without a basher back the Eagles have had to be too "creative" in these situations. I was hoping either for a sneak...or a fake to westbrook and a roll out. Actually I was hoping the review noticed that the ball crossed the plane on the play before. It did. Some years this sh t
happens. We analyze the games to death...but a few plays have been the difference between 5-7 and 8 and 4. Last year at 5-6 we intercept Delhomme down by the goal line. This year the coin flipped the other way.

[leifdawg]

Re: Chinese Fire Drill

It's weird because I seem to remember in 2001 or 2000 we had several come from behind victories late in the 4th quarter several times.

[stocknowledge]

Re: Chinese Fire Drill

It's weird because I seem to remember in 2001 or 2000 we had several come from behind victories late in the 4th quarter several times.

Yes, it is probably six or seven years since we had a come-from-behind victory -- and it was probably a matter of luck rather than from a well thought out plan. We would often win close games because of McNabb's athleticism. Those days are over.