Apple and security (OT and destined to be moved)

[Eagle60]

I don't doubt that Stock, but it's only 20% of the budget. 28% is healthcare, and 10%is welfare. I don't think defense spending is out of whack. If some of those other countries pulled their weight maybe ours could be lessened.

[stocknowledge]

I don't doubt that Stock, but it's only 20% of the budget. 28% is healthcare, and 10%is welfare. I don't think defense spending is out of whack. If some of those other countries pulled their weight maybe ours could be lessened.

OK. Just don't claim that we can't afford to have universal healthcare or education. It's all just a matter of priorities.

As a comparison, Great Britain (our closest ally) only spends 6% of its budget on defense.

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/budget_pie_ukgs.php

[tinopuno]

Not interesting at all. Its actually very simple and consistent. Those in favor of less government are usually also very much concerned with greter national/public security. THere is the link that goes hand in hand.

Mike,

I'm REALLY not interested in contributing in any way to this harmless thread being moved but I do have a question from one reasonable, if mildly senile, guy to another.

Maybe I'm simply missing something obvious but, from an operational perspective, isn't our "national security" essentially dependent on a number of large, rather costly organizations/agencies within the federal government...the Departments of the Army, Navy, Air Force and Homeland Security, the CIA, the FBI, et al.

And to the extent that our national security IS dependent upon these large organizations, where does the money come from to fund them if not from federal taxes?

[FRESH]

tino, not trying to be deliberately obtuse here, but what is your point?

Are you suggesting that because I favor downsizing parts of our government that I should also want to downsize our security? I have stated before that I primarily want two things from my govt, and the top one of those two things is providing security to our people. And I feel that one of the primary ways to provide security is to show strength. No, I am not in favor of downsizing our military. I AM in favor of maximizing its efficiency, and of not being afraid to make use of it when necessary. And no, I do not see that as being in conflict with other views that I have about our governments wastefullness.

Vin will move this thread now in 3....2.....

[Eagle60]

APPLE IS RIGHT!!!

They said that they can take apart the phone and give them everything that's on it in 3 weeks. Not good enough! The FBI wants software to do it themselves. I cry bullshit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Eagle60]

Trump just came out with "boycott Apple, I just thought of that, boycott Apple". I think that he might have really put his foot in his mouth this time. Especially if Apple did say they would unlock the phone for the FBI. He may have shot from the hip once too often this time.

[Rossovich]

Apple should unlock it. Let an agent or 2 be present with the phone at all times if that makes the FBI feel better. Not in favor of a code being given to anyone let alone our government.

[Eagle60]

Apple should unlock it. Let an agent or 2 be present with the phone at all times if that makes the FBI feel better. Not in favor of a code being given to anyone let alone our government.

I'll bet 90% of America would say that too and Apple claims they will do that. They just won't give the gov't software ND I don't blame them!!!

[FRESH]

Man, I can make a strong case for either side in this matter. This is really a tough one. And anyone acting like its a simple case one way or the other has blinders on.


That said, Apple doesn't work for the govt. they are not employed by the govt. I can't see how the fbi makes them do any work, period. Anything Apple does is a charitable contribution to the cause. .....and with that, Should they? I can't even make up my mind about that. I worry about the precedent it would set. But I want our govt to have the tools necessary to gather Intel that protects us. Do we trust them not to abuse that ability???

[tinopuno]

tino, not trying to be deliberately obtuse here, but what is your point?

Are you suggesting that because I favor downsizing parts of our government that I should also want to downsize our security? I have stated before that I primarily want two things from my govt, and the top one of those two things is providing security to our people. And I feel that one of the primary ways to provide security is to show strength. No, I am not in favor of downsizing our military. I AM in favor of maximizing its efficiency, and of not being afraid to make use of it when necessary. And no, I do not see that as being in conflict with other views that I have about our governments wastefullness.

Vin will move this thread now in 3....2.....

Fair enough my friend.

And I haven't read anything political so far that would warrant the thread being moved.

This is the kind of issue that I would enjoy discussing with you over several beers but which, IMO, like any serious issue involving more than one variable, simply leaves too much room for misunderstanding in the short spurts of typed dialogue permitted in by the internet. All the richness of face-to-face conversation is lost.

So I tend to avoid them and fall back on my warped and childish sense of humor.

It's all good.

[stocknowledge]

I'll just say one more thing and then step down from my soapbox.

The biggest amount of waste in government is located in the defense budget. As soon as someone says that government is too large, I immediately say that they should look into reducing the size of our defense budget. Amen.

How far away is football season?

[tinopuno]

Man, I can make a strong case for either side in this matter. This is really a tough one.

This is precisely where I am on this issue. Seriously!


Not quite as seriously...What we need to help us sort this out is someone who is intellectually brilliant, totally unbiased, and informed by principles that are beyond reproach.




Better call Saul!!

[Eagle60]

I'll just say one more thing and then step down from my soapbox.

The biggest amount of waste in government is located in the defense budget. As soon as someone says that government is too large, I immediately say that they should look into reducing the size of our defense budget. Amen.

How far away is football season?

That could well be true, but I'll go with Medicare fraud. Plus at 28% the medical budget is the biggest.

[FRESH]

That could well be true, but I'll go with Medicare fraud. Plus at 28% the medical budget is the biggest.

Yeah, it's hard to ignore fraud that is just so in-Your-face. Unless you really want to miss it.

Getting into what part of the govt is excessive and wasteful is a rather endles and fruitless exercise. You can look at the the cia, Medicare or the personal atendendants to the First Lady.....it's all Anything but frugal. Speaks to the entitled society we live in today. It's not a political issue. The former genration who came out of the Great Depression had a very different mindset, and values. Shame, but there is no going back.

More importantly, as was the intent of our forefathers when we escaped Brittish rule and oppression, we don't need so much govt involvement in our lives. Supposedly.........why are we progressing....backwards.??

FTR, I am going to go ahead and move this thread to the misc board. I hope that anyone interested in discussing the whole Apple/security situation will follow it there. Im Not trying to kill it.

[Eagle60]

It was destined to end up here. What really pisses me off is that if they just asked apple to hack the phone they would have. Now this is going to get dragged through the courts for a couple of years and the FBI will get nothing. Stupid!