Just back from the Linc

[section 736]

Re: Just back from the Linc

It got quiet as the Bears were driving down the field because we could all see it coming. The guy in front of me was saying "only the Eagles", and it was pretty much how we all felt. They were dropping Kearse back into the "joker" position and got no pressure on the QB. You know what they say about the "prevent defense", it prevents you from winning, and it did again.

* They had a 3 man front and dropped 8 and yet everyone was wide open. I'm not an NFL Defensive Coordinator but that is just retarded. Period. How can you not see that? You have 97 yards to make an adjustment.

Nothing. Just crap after crap.

With no pressure, eventually someone is going to come open. That was the point I was making. Jim Johnson seems to do this at least once each season. I don't totally blame the defense, but you can't let them march right down the field.

[Pliny]

Re: Just back from the Linc

"Jim Johnson seems to do this at least once each season".

Yes he does. I really like JJ. But, this strategy drives me crazy.

I know that Buddy Ryan had a bad playoff record. But, you would never see this kind of crap from his defenses. Buddy would take it to you 100% of the time. If you scored against Buddy's defenses, then you had to earn it. The attitude and swagger of that defense has never been matched and the fans back then loved it.

I would love to have Rex Ryan as our DC. But, it won't ever happen. Lucky Baltimore.

I don't give Griese much credit at all for the comeback. We pretty much gave it to him.

[eaglecoop]

Re: Just back from the Linc

We were in row 10 of the end zone where that drive started on the 3 and it was LOUD. Most everyone was standing and screaming, beating on chair backs, etc. That quick 1st down took some wind out but we all continued making as much noise as possible, I didn't hear much less noise as they went down the field from our end even though I definitely had that sinking feeling. Just unbelievable...

We sat in our seats totally deflated as the birds left the field through the tunnel near us. There was a ton of booing but I didn't hear any of the cursing that others said they heard. I was too emotionally drained at that point to boo or curse, in fact I was choked up and for the first time in a long time thought I might cry. I'm 55 and my 22yo son was with me. I feel sorry for him...poor kid coulda been a Ravens fan having been born down here but noooooo, he inherited my green blood and is sentenced to a lifetime of football torture for it.

I do have a small issue with people basically refusing to stand and cheer as loud as humanly possible on defensive 3rd downs. One guy in our section was trying to rally the troops but some other guys refused to stand...it almost got to the fight point and the security guard they sent down was smaller than a 12yo so that went nowhere. That went on for the entire 2nd half. Anyway, I know the noise at our end caused at least one, maybe two time outs.

I live in Ravenville and I'll give Ravens fans credit for their noise...but that's all.

[balto-eaglefan]

Re: Just back from the Linc

Not sure if they showed it on TV or not, but people in the stadium were not particularly pleased with how things ended. There was a fairly large group who crowded around the Eagles entrance tunnel and were openly cursing at Andy and some of the players. There was also a pretty large group booing. This probably isn't a surprise but I thought I would pass it along. Dallas is the next home game. Might be pretty ugly if it starts out slowly. That's a Sunday night game and you know that most tailgaters start at 8am in the parking lots no matter what time kickoff is!

I'll bet Kevin Kolb thought, "I'll have to face this when I have a bad game. Great."

[leifdawg]

Re: Just back from the Linc

feel sorry for him...poor kid coulda been a Ravens fan having been born down here but noooooo, he inherited my green blood and is sentenced to a lifetime of football torture for it.

Yeah, but the Ravens didn't exist when he was born.

[Vote for Kalas]

Re: Just back from the Linc

feel sorry for him...poor kid coulda been a Ravens fan having been born down here but noooooo, he inherited my green blood and is sentenced to a lifetime of football torture for it.

Yeah, but the Ravens didn't exist when he was born.

Yup and we know there is nothing but misery being an Eagles fan....

[ekravitz]

Re: Just back from the Linc

I'm going with the people who were at the game and saying it was loud until the Bears started to move it down the field. we all freakin saw it. three man line the whole damn time. it was going to happen. I don't blame those fans one bit. and I'm someone who doesn't like booing.

[Vote for Kalas]

Re: Just back from the Linc

No one is arguing it wasn't loud at the beginning of the drive. The issue was after the 2nd 1st down, the crowd went very quiet rather than supporting their defense in the most crucial part of the game.

If one is going to sit on their hands, mope, boo, bitch, moan and expect the worst and then say after the game, "I knew that would happen", I think that is pathetic.

Cheer your team and make them know you are behind them 100%. If they succeed, you'll know you helped the team. If they fail, you'll know at least you did your part. It still hurts if they fail, but this whole "woe is me" crap is so tiresome.

If one thinks being an Eagle fan is so miserable and soul wrenching, why would they continue to put themselves through that? If one already knows what will happen every game and that the Eagles will never win, why suffer through? Life is too short, go have fun instead.

[stevemc]

Re: Just back from the Linc

No one is arguing it wasn't loud at the beginning of the drive. The issue was after the 2nd 1st down, the crowd went very quiet rather than supporting their defense in the most crucial part of the game.

If one is going to sit on their hands, mope, boo, bitch, moan and expect the worst and then say after the game, "I knew that would happen", I think that is pathetic.

Cheer your team and make them know you are behind them 100%. If they succeed, you'll know you helped the team. If they fail, you'll know at least you did your part. It still hurts if they fail, but this whole "woe is me" crap is so tiresome.

If one thinks being an Eagle fan is so miserable and soul wrenching, why would they continue to put themselves through that? If one already knows what will happen every game and that the Eagles will never win, why suffer through? Life is too short, go have fun instead.

Wow - I disagree with the majority of your post VFK which is odd for me. I was there, cheering like crazy on Sunday and then I see that prevent defense and now that I think back to it - I think I did indeed ease up on my noise level. It wasn't a conscious effort but I believe when I was pounding on the seat in front of me and giving the team everything in my body only to have it not pay any dividends, I think you shut down a little. Again - it wasn't a conscious effort - I just eased up (much like the defense). Seeing that sometimes numbs you. It happened to me in 2 straight home NFCCGs (Tampa & Carolina). I couldn't have been more hyped up but you get numb and tired yelling your head off to no avail.

As for your 2nd item about "why do you put yourself through it if it's so gut wrenching"? You are a philadelphia fan in general - right? I know you are crazed about the Phils and Eagles. It's in your blood. It becomes a part of you. It's a love, hobby & passion in your life. At least it is for me. I know you've had personal hardship so I won't even pretend to say this is on the same level but I feel the Eagles are an extension of me. (Again - not on the same level but) Similar to a family member in need or sick or addicted, I can't turn a blind eye to them when they are down. It isn't in my nature to just go have some fun and disregard them. That's why we're here, we're passionate and love our sports even if it kills us.

[Vote for Kalas]

Re: Just back from the Linc

Thanks Steve...

I totally understand the why fans went quiet and how tough it is to stay positive at times with this organization, but a crowd can make a difference in games like that IMO...home field advantage should be FOR the home team, not the opposing team. Crowd noise can impact an offense's ability to execute and it also can help the defense rise up and execute better too. Football, unlike baseball, is a very emotional sport and players have said millions of times our fans/crowd has helped them play better.

Believe me, I know it is in my blood and heart and I love all Philadelphia sports. But I get alot of positive out of it too; it is not misery and failure 100%. Some seem to only experience the downsides of our sports teams and I think that is too bad. If they cannot see the good/positive, expect the team to lose always, that they are doomed to being an Eagles fan and never will cheer if they feel the team has not earned it, I do not see why they continue. I am not judging them; just asking why.

[section 736]

Re: Just back from the Linc

I think to frame the debate in terms of fan noise is pointless. Even on the last play fans were cheering, there were many "DEFENSE" chants in which I was INCLUDED. As we watched the Bears march for the first 75 yards in a minute, stopping the clock with passes to the sideline, with our defensive end dropping back into coverage and missing tackles in the open field, giving first down after first down, we were disheartened. It doesen't mean we weren't supporting our team 100%. It doesen't mean we were pathetic and I didn't hear one person say "woe is me". If the team shits the bed in the last minute we as fans reserve the right to mope, boo, bitch and moan. If we've seen this in previous years from Jim Johnson's defense, (not to mention the last drive against the Jets last week when Sheldon saved our ass) the team deserves some of the blame for conditioning us to "expect the worst". To put it in perspective, to get a parking spot with your friends you have to get there before 10 am for a 4 pm game. It's $20 to park, it was hot as hell and water cost $3.50, as a fan you're getting propositioned to buy/donate to something every 5 feet, you know the rest of the division won and we're pissing away our chance to stay within striking distance and now we didn't do our part? That's insulting coming from someone who watched on TV. For me, after an 11 hour day, fighting traffic back home, listening to the drunks who bet on the game call the after game shows, I felt like I wasted my whole day. If somebody can't understand why I might have been miserable, I don't have an answer for you, but don't question me as a fan. If I want to sit on my hands, I've paid for and earned my right to do so. I don't tell anyone how to be a fan and don't judge them for what they do, especially when the product on the field gets just what it deserved.

[stevemc]

Re: Just back from the Linc

Thanks for the clarification VFK.

In regards to the crowd, I think we're one of the most knowledgeable homefield crowds there are. We don't cheer during the offensive series and try to get up on the defensive series. You want to know what set the tone though for the fan reaction? The introductions. Man - I realized how BORING this team is when the defense was introduced. The fans get riled up beginning with the intros. The intro for the defenses of the early 90's was electric. Reggie would come out and waive his helmet and be the first on the field and you'd wrap up with Wes Hopkins with Clyde, Seth, B&E, Waters, Allen in between. It was great. That continues today when B-Dawk is the last out of the gate. But this past Sunday, there was tepid cheering for Kearse and then Patterson and Bunkley - boring. Trent Cole got some love. Spikes got some love but came out without his helmet on (turn off). Then Gaither of all people comes out without his helmet on - DUDE - you have to earn the right to show that kind of bravado. Then Chris freakin Gocong. He might be solid but he's about as exciting as a limp handshake. Lito was the only player to get a rile out of the crowd and that's based on merit. Sheldon Brown was probably the next best but to wrap up with Considine (the whipping boy) and Quentin Mikell - you just see a team that lacks identity, that lacks enthusiasm, that lacks an edge. That carried over into the game. I dread the type of reaction McNabb will get next home game when the offense is announced.

And I think you know (as many of us migrated over here for this very reason) that there are alot of us that get enjoyment out of the high points and peaks this team creates. We just get disgusted in the valleys.

[saratoga]

Re: Just back from the Linc

I think to frame the debate in terms of fan noise is pointless. Even on the last play fans were cheering, there were many "DEFENSE" chants in which I was INCLUDED. As we watched the Bears march for the first 75 yards in a minute, stopping the clock with passes to the sideline, with our defensive end dropping back into coverage and missing tackles in the open field, giving first down after first down, we were disheartened. It doesen't mean we weren't supporting our team 100%. It doesen't mean we were pathetic and I didn't hear one person say "woe is me". If the team shits the bed in the last minute we as fans reserve the right to mope, boo, bitch and moan. If we've seen this in previous years from Jim Johnson's defense, (not to mention the last drive against the Jets last week when Sheldon saved our ass) the team deserves some of the blame for conditioning us to "expect the worst". To put it in perspective, to get a parking spot with your friends you have to get there before 10 am for a 4 pm game. It's $20 to park, it was hot as hell and water cost $3.50, as a fan you're getting propositioned to buy/donate to something every 5 feet, you know the rest of the division won and we're pissing away our chance to stay within striking distance and now we didn't do our part? That's insulting coming from someone who watched on TV. For me, after an 11 hour day, fighting traffic back home, listening to the drunks who bet on the game call the after game shows, I felt like I wasted my whole day. If somebody can't understand why I might have been miserable, I don't have an answer for you, but don't question me as a fan. If I want to sit on my hands, I've paid for and earned my right to do so. I don't tell anyone how to be a fan and don't judge them for what they do, especially when the product on the field gets just what it deserved.

Well said, section. I agree with you totally. JJ's plan and the players "execution" take the fans out of it. Everyone can see that they are playing "not to lose" and everyone knows that this so-called strategy rarely works. The fans did their part. The coach primarily and the players secondarily, did not.

[Vote for Kalas]

Re: Just back from the Linc

I think to frame the debate in terms of fan noise is pointless. Even on the last play fans were cheering, there were many "DEFENSE" chants in which I was INCLUDED. As we watched the Bears march for the first 75 yards in a minute, stopping the clock with passes to the sideline, with our defensive end dropping back into coverage and missing tackles in the open field, giving first down after first down, we were disheartened. It doesen't mean we weren't supporting our team 100%. It doesen't mean we were pathetic and I didn't hear one person say "woe is me". If the team shits the bed in the last minute we as fans reserve the right to mope, boo, bitch and moan. If we've seen this in previous years from Jim Johnson's defense, (not to mention the last drive against the Jets last week when Sheldon saved our ass) the team deserves some of the blame for conditioning us to "expect the worst". To put it in perspective, to get a parking spot with your friends you have to get there before 10 am for a 4 pm game. It's $20 to park, it was hot as hell and water cost $3.50, as a fan you're getting propositioned to buy/donate to something every 5 feet, you know the rest of the division won and we're pissing away our chance to stay within striking distance and now we didn't do our part? That's insulting coming from someone who watched on TV. For me, after an 11 hour day, fighting traffic back home, listening to the drunks who bet on the game call the after game shows, I felt like I wasted my whole day. If somebody can't understand why I might have been miserable, I don't have an answer for you, but don't question me as a fan. If I want to sit on my hands, I've paid for and earned my right to do so. I don't tell anyone how to be a fan and don't judge them for what they do, especially when the product on the field gets just what it deserved.

Sounds terrible....did you have any fun at all?

I get the emotions and mindset part, believe me I have been a fan since I can remember. I apologize for questioning your fandom or support for the team. I am not trying to judge anybody, but figure out, for example, why we seem to assimilate the condition to expect the worst (based on past team failures), but do not assimilate a condition to expect the best (based on the larger number of team successes in this era). We have won way more than we lost under Reid. Yet we expect the worst?

I was not arguing that the entire crowd was silent, but that the lack of cheering was noticable and the overall noise was less than one would expect in a closely fought crucial game. The commentators discussed it and it struck me as strange.

[Vote for Kalas]

Re: Just back from the Linc

Thanks for the clarification VFK.

In regards to the crowd, I think we're one of the most knowledgeable homefield crowds there are. We don't cheer during the offensive series and try to get up on the defensive series. You want to know what set the tone though for the fan reaction? The introductions. Man - I realized how BORING this team is when the defense was introduced. The fans get riled up beginning with the intros. The intro for the defenses of the early 90's was electric. Reggie would come out and waive his helmet and be the first on the field and you'd wrap up with Wes Hopkins with Clyde, Seth, B&E, Waters, Allen in between. It was great. That continues today when B-Dawk is the last out of the gate. But this past Sunday, there was tepid cheering for Kearse and then Patterson and Bunkley - boring. Trent Cole got some love. Spikes got some love but came out without his helmet on (turn off). Then Gaither of all people comes out without his helmet on - DUDE - you have to earn the right to show that kind of bravado. Then Chris freakin Gocong. He might be solid but he's about as exciting as a limp handshake. Lito was the only player to get a rile out of the crowd and that's based on merit. Sheldon Brown was probably the next best but to wrap up with Considine (the whipping boy) and Quentin Mikell - you just see a team that lacks identity, that lacks enthusiasm, that lacks an edge. That carried over into the game. I dread the type of reaction McNabb will get next home game when the offense is announced.

And I think you know (as many of us migrated over here for this very reason) that there are alot of us that get enjoyment out of the high points and peaks this team creates. We just get disgusted in the valleys.

Interesting...I guess that is part of the entertainment value I never really thought of. For me, as long as the guy executes well and gets his job done I could care less about his personality or charisma or how much the fans love him, but I do think we miss Dawk talent and leadership-wise and I do think this is a young and growing defensive group overall i.e. one that is finding it's identity.

I find that exciting because I get to watch them grow together and hopefully become that dominant unit, but if others find that boring I guess I can see that. I also think they have played pretty darn well for a unit in that phase of development especially without Dawk & Lito for a stretch. I guess I understand some mistakes and meltdowns are part of that development process. Gaither had 16 tackles vs. Chicago...I think he is playing MLB very well so far.

I agree we have a very knowledgeable fan base; see my question in response to section's post above for what I am still confused about.