Just back from the Linc

[section 736]

Re: Just back from the Linc

Look, I came here because I got sick and tired of being called a front office apologist on another board. I like Reid and respect what he has accomplished. I don't expect the worst every time, but to shift ANY of the blame onto fans cheering or not cheering is so full of faulty logic that I just couldn't help myself. The team blew the game on the field in front of a rabid fanbase who had no choice but to swallow it's pride. And yes, I had a lot of fun until there were 9 seconds left in the game, and my reaction to that debacle shows just how much of my heart and soul I invest in this team. If I didn't give a shit I would have just said "oh well. we'll get em next week", but instead I'm on here trying to figure out what happened and it somehow turned into having to defend myself as a fan.

[balto-eaglefan]

Re: Just back from the Linc

First rate response on the honesty, 736 (not kidding).

[Luzinski's Gut]

Re: Just back from the Linc

Right on 736.

I don't need to be questioned as a fan just because I boo or get pissed off when the team deserves it.

I'm in the Army, I rarely get back to Philly anymore and the last game I saw was at the Vet in 03. But I still spend money on gear, the NFL radio package through NFL.com, and I generally die hard with the Eagles. It's the great thing about the NFL - it's once a week, and you get the cresendo of anticipation as the week goes on until gameday.

And when the team shits the bed, as they have done this twice this year - that resulted in losses- you should be angry. Philly sports fans are the most resiliant in sports - we sell out games even when the team is bad. We haven't seen a title in 24 years. I'm not saying we need to be miserable for the sake of being miserable (plenty of fans do feed off this however), but I do feel like the team should get booed for lackisidasical play, poor scheme, and a lack of risk.

And that only gets amplified when the team is in the PERFECT position to win a game, and yet, they find a way to lose.

[Vote for Kalas]

Re: Just back from the Linc

Look, I came here because I got sick and tired of being called a front office apologist on another board. I like Reid and respect what he has accomplished. I don't expect the worst every time, but to shift ANY of the blame onto fans cheering or not cheering is so full of faulty logic that I just couldn't help myself. The team blew the game on the field in front of a rabid fanbase who had no choice but to swallow it's pride. And yes, I had a lot of fun until there were 9 seconds left in the game, and my reaction to that debacle shows just how much of my heart and soul I invest in this team. If I didn't give a shit I would have just said "oh well. we'll get em next week", but instead I'm on here trying to figure out what happened and it somehow turned into having to defend myself as a fan.

Thank you for explaining, section...I respect that alot and I am not trying to shift any blame onto the fanbase; just trying to understand why they reacted the way they did in that situation. Again, I did not mean my points to come across as attacks on your fandom. I am glad you had fun at the game.

[Vote for Kalas]

Re: Just back from the Linc

Right on 736.

I don't need to be questioned as a fan just because I boo or get pissed off when the team deserves it.

I'm in the Army, I rarely get back to Philly anymore and the last game I saw was at the Vet in 03. But I still spend money on gear, the NFL radio package through NFL.com, and I generally die hard with the Eagles. It's the great thing about the NFL - it's once a week, and you get the cresendo of anticipation as the week goes on until gameday.

And when the team shits the bed, as they have done this twice this year - that resulted in losses- you should be angry. Philly sports fans are the most resiliant in sports - we sell out games even when the team is bad. We haven't seen a title in 24 years. I'm not saying we need to be miserable for the sake of being miserable (plenty of fans do feed off this however), but I do feel like the team should get booed for lackisidasical play, poor scheme, and a lack of risk.

And that only gets amplified when the team is in the PERFECT position to win a game, and yet, they find a way to lose.

LG-

You know I have respected you and what you do on both boards going way back...

Thanks for explaining. I am angry sure; my question was why the crowd seemed angry BEFORE the loss happened rather than being angry after...I can see being frustrated once it is done and believe me I was too...but waiting for it to happen was what I was confused about.

[section 736]

Re: Just back from the Linc

Thanks for explaining. I am angry sure; my question was why the crowd seemed angry BEFORE the loss happened rather than being angry after...I can see being frustrated once it is done and believe me I was too...but waiting for it to happen was what I was confused about.



Hey VFK, I don't want to seem like I'm dumping on you, because I'm not, but it was only the week before that we held on by the skin on our teeth against a terrible team in the last moments as our defense let the Jets drive right down the field. As I pointed out, if it weren't for Sheldon it would have been 2 weeks in a row. We as a crowd were not angry at the team, at least from my point of view, until the end of the game. We were restless when the redzone opportunities were not cashed in, and as any savvy football fan would know these are the kinds of things that come back to bite you in the ass. It was tempered by the fact that the Bears were not any better in their redzone opportunities, until the fateful moment that our ass' were bitten.

[MDFAN]

Re: Just back from the Linc

Good discussion guys.... refreshing to be able to chat about these things without the other bullcrap.

VFK..on a personal level, you know I agree with you,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,IN THEORY!!!

The problem is that in the real world of Philly sports, the devastating losses far out weigh the last minute wins............... by a ton!


We have in the Eagles and Phillies --- two of the worst over all franchises in regards to W's and L's -- in the history of both leagues------------- you don't get over that or look past it -- it's ingrained into your mental sub conscience.

Those vibes then pop out almost like deja vu ---- you can't help it.

Reids wonderful 8 years here doesn't get to erase the past century of more failure then greatness.

I think in a perfect/new world (one without the long long long history of ineptitude) you are correct in that fans shouldn't be expecting the worst before it happens, you're right that wouldn't make sense ---- but this isn't a perfect world, this world has a history............... a mostly negative one in Philly pro sports----- that does play a large part into how people react to some situations!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I personally never understood it, but that is just me. It never made sense to me to go all over the top about these things --- people don't think the players know they stunk?

Do they really think that booing and all the rest help? I don't------But I understand "the why" others do it


Climbing down off my now!!!!!!!!!!

[ThoughtProcess]

Re: Just back from the Linc

Good discussion guys.... refreshing to be able to chat about these things without the other bullcrap...

Hear, hear!

[FRESH]

Re: Just back from the Linc

Maybe VFK became a fan in 2002?

You know, we all enjoys the ups and downs, and there ahve been both, in every recent regime. Heck, remember a great playoff win against the Lions? I think we won 156 -10. And Charlie Garner gained 800 yards with 12 touchdowns against the 9ers. Point is, it's hope for those GREAT moments that we all stay around, and invested here. Did I ever feel lower than losing to Tampa in the nFC playoffs? Nope. That was AWFUL. How about McNabb seeimingly single handedly beating the Bears in the playoffs? AMAZING, and you felt it was the start of something incredible.

We are all fans. Nobody here roots for or expects the team to suck. They wouldn't turn the TV on or go to the games if that was the case. Get real. But I can't fault ANY long time Eagles fan for having a sinking feeling in their gut during that final drive last week. I mean, I expect that was the norm for most of our fans, and I'm surprised you didn't feel it too.

[Luzinski's Gut]

Re: Just back from the Linc

VFk - it's all good bra

[Vote for Kalas]

Re: Just back from the Linc

MD and Fresh,

Thanks for the good points. I agree it is not the perfect world, but again I think blaming Reid and McNabb for 65 years of futility they were NOT even here for is totally unfair and should be called out. That is the FANS issue, not Reid or McNabb or Lurie IMO. They need to get over themselves and treat people with more dignity and respect just as they demand the players and coaches do to them IMO. This grudge some fans carry (and the media manipulates) is a lot bigger than the one they accuse McNabb of carrying for example. They constantly say McNabb needs to get over himself and act like a adult. (I agree at times) Well, one could say practice what you preach back to them.

Again, this does not mean all fans are terrible or they are not very knowledgeable or extremely loyal or resilient...it means like all the players, coaches, management and owner they are human and have their flaws as well. They are not above accountability IMO and I count myself in that too. I nearly split my TV in two last weekend watching that last drive and, if I had been in attendance, I would have been just as upset, but we are still responsible for how we treat people especially the ones we WANT to somehow turn their season around and play better. Most times, people respond better to honey than vinegar IMO.

I understand why some would expect the worst based on their entire experience as fans over their lifetimes and I share that frustration, however, I try to keep the context of the present situation and only criticize the players, coaches, management and owner for what they ARE responsible for. I am in my 30's and thus I do not have decades stacked upon decades of frustration built up and thus may not totally comprehend the pain threshold of the older fans, but I have been a fan for over 25 years and would certainly like to see more success. I think Lurie, Reid & Co. provide a very good chance of that which is why they still have my support.

[MDFAN]

Re: Just back from the Linc

VFK, I tend to agree with almost everything you said--- but again you asked why and I think I explained it fairly clearly.

You have to accept that some people can't or won't or don't want to be logical about it or some (many) think it's better to let that "century of pain" be displayed.

Some people think they have earned that right.( I don't agree)

But I still say for the majority it's drawn from the sub conscience -- some people don't have your(or my) control and they don't want to.

That's why I'd rather stay away from the actual game day threads and the ones right after(esp after a loss) cause most of the posting(just as at the games) is being done on an emotional level, almost sub- conscience level and not a rational/logical level. You have to accept that not all people can or want to separate that emotional release from purely logical/rational thinking.

IMO, I don't think it's directed at Reid or Mcnabb the people -- it would be any coach or any QB in this city under these same circumstances.

Again, just IMO, a lot of this is media driven based on the need to create drama and in this city since most of the "century of pain" has been negative -- the media pushes that button.... and the sheep follow!

These are the "whys" you asked about, no it doesn't make it right, it doesn't make it logical, in fact it could hurt more than it helps ----- but it is the reality in this city.


And the reverse of that is also in play -- win the SB and this town will celebrate like no other town in America has ever done......... IMO.

[section 736]

Re: Just back from the Linc

I just have to totally disagree with the premise that the booing and/or lack of cheering was based on 75 years of built up frustration. It had nothing to do with it. We have a losing record THIS YEAR, and we all thought (no matter how negative some were) that we would be better than 2-4. The team is what it is and the fans treat it that way. Being a fan is defined by cheering AND booing, and what exactly have we had to cheer about this year? A big win over the Lions? I will boo my team at any time I think they deserve it and I will cheer when they've earned it and I won't and shouldn't change my approach. That said, I don't think we're out of it yet. The next 2 games are critical. If we can get to .500 at the halfway point anything is possible, even at 3-5 it's not impossible.

[MDFAN]

Re: Just back from the Linc

I just have to totally disagree with the premise that the booing and/or lack of cheering was based on 75 years of built up frustration. It had nothing to do with it. We have a losing record THIS YEAR, and we all thought (no matter how negative some were) that we would be better than 2-4. The team is what it is and the fans treat it that way. Being a fan is defined by cheering AND booing, and what exactly have we had to cheer about this year? A big win over the Lions? I will boo my team at any time I think they deserve it and I will cheer when they've earned it and I won't and shouldn't change my approach. That said, I don't think we're out of it yet. The next 2 games are critical. If we can get to .500 at the halfway point anything is possible, even at 3-5 it's not impossible.

736, my responses have been directed at the notion as to why people would start to have that sinking feeling as stated by VFK ---- "The issue was after the 2nd 1st down, the crowd went very quiet rather than supporting their defense in the most crucial part of the game." and "I am not trying to judge anybody, but figure out, for example, why we seem to assimilate the condition to expect the worst (based on past team failures), but do not assimilate a condition to expect the best (based on the larger number of team successes in this era). We have won way more than we lost under Reid. Yet we expect the worst?" And "just trying to understand why they reacted the way they did in that situation. "

Now after saying that I do believe that this town carries a certain "waiting for the other shoe to drop" mentality---- because with these two franchises --- it usually does.

You are free to disagree, obviously, but it is my strong opinion that on a sub conscience level many many Philly fans do "expect" the worst to happen and therefore can't just cheer on the team at times like that last drive -- because it is ingrained in them from a century of having the 2 biggest losing franchises in baseball and football. Many people are afraid to emotionality, 100%, without fear, invest any more in the team ---- at that time.

[FRESH]

Re: Just back from the Linc

Very good post, MD, I agree. Except for the very last part. These fans ARE emotionally invested, believe that.