Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

[ThoughtProcess]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

Gee, think this is a hot topic? I think this is the longest thread we've had in one hell of a long time. Besides perhaps game threads.

So, the opinions are strong, and varied. Hell, my OWN thoughts are varied. I vascilate between positions and options. Some will want to call me out, or saying that I'm just covering my own ass. Not true, I simply can't make up my damned mind.....

On the one hand, I would love to see McNabb came back and become a legit superstar QB for us, and make another run. On the other hand, I feel a great amount of skepticism that he can, and that there are other ways we could use the resources of this team and cap that would ultimatley make us more successful. Bottom line, I want to win. And whatever the best scenario is for us to do that, that's what I am in favor of.

Clear as mud?

Now THAT is clarity!

Good post!

[sfphillyfan]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

Gee, think this is a hot topic? I think this is the longest thread we've had in one hell of a long time. Besides perhaps game threads.

So, the opinions are strong, and varied. Hell, my OWN thoughts are varied. I vascilate between positions and options. Some will want to call me out, or saying that I'm just covering my own ass. Not true, I simply can't make up my damned mind.....

On the one hand, I would love to see McNabb came back and become a legit superstar QB for us, and make another run. On the other hand, I feel a great amount of skepticism that he can, and that there are other ways we could use the resources of this team and cap that would ultimatley make us more successful. Bottom line, I want to win. And whatever the best scenario is for us to do that, that's what I am in favor of.

Clear as mud?

I always knew you went both ways, Fresh.


I feel like this mcnabb saga has weighed me down so much I just want a fresh start. The chances of him playing great for us again are slim to none and slim talked to bryant gumble about how black QBs get more criticism and left the building...

A note to everyone who thinks that people bashed mcnabb from the get go: I think that overall, 99% of the users on the board really really liked (if not loved) McNabb, which is why we feel so let down by him lately. I know this might sound crazy but it's like Britney Spears going from hot to train wreck. It's like you're extra angry because you feel fooled. McNabb had such awesome physical gifts that we all went to bat for him and told all the Giants/Cowboys/Redskins fans (aka assholes) that McNabb was a top QB in the league (he actually was for a couple of years) and we chose to look past his faults. Now we're faced with admitting that, yes, he's not very accurate, and yes, he has really bad decision making, and yes, he is nothing without his legs.. and it's a very sad and very anger inducing realization.

So contrast this with Dawkins. Why does everyone still LOVE dawkins and just feel bad that his skills are diminishing? Because Dawkins never gave anyone a reason to dislike him. We never heard from Dawkins' mom. He brought it every single play and he never had a chip on his shoulder about being booed on draft day or thinking he had something to prove about being a black and a pocket QB and not succumbing to stereotypes. Now, of course, Dawkins never faced the pressure that McNabb has and the criticism and the ridiculousness of Rush Limbaugh or TO, but it's just an example of why we continue to love Dawkins and think 5 overstayed his welcome, even from those of us who truly did welcome him.

I say "we" instead of "I" because I get the feeling that a lot of us feel this way. And there are some of us that are still sticking by McNabb (VFK, MD and EFD come to mind.) I'm not calling you guys out or anything. I just think you guys can take more disappointment from 5 than most of us can. We all wanted him to succeed and he let us down. Sure the FO and coaching has a lot to do with it. We all recognize that. But McNabb is out top paid player, the one we pinned our hopes on, and he simply didn't deliver. Is it unfair to blame the QB? Maybe if you play in Baltimore. But in most NFL clubs and especially in AR's offense, the QB is the focal point. He is the main cog. So yes, he is the reason we're not winning.

[FRESH]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

I guess that's fair Vin, it's all subjective.

There are no McNabb haters here, to my knowledge. Only Eagles fans. Go to whomever you think is a McNabb hater, and guarantee them that we will win the most games with McNabb, and that supposed hater will be a supporter. We all just want to win games, that's what it comes down to. Not, disliking McNabb because he doesn't smile on the sidelines enough...blah,blah,blah....win games. Give us the best chance at a title. Problem is, fewer and fewer people believe he can do it, or that he is the best option for this club. I guess what I'm saying is, it's not an anti-McNabb agenda, it's a pro-Eagles agenda.

[stocknowledge]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

Well said, Vin. But, McNabb's leaving is not a done deal, and I am sure that those of us here who wish him gone will still root for him if he is with the Eagles next year. If so, I do hope that they get more parts for the offense, and re-think their version of the WCO, because it just ain't working.

** Just noticed that this is my 600th post. Do I now qualify for a toaster or microwave?

[MDFAN]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

And once again if you try to take a position that isn't on one polar end or the other that position is transformed--- into one end or the other.

I am not a Mcnabb apologist or whatever label is being used.

What I believe is that I don't pretend to know if Mcnabb is done or not--many here seem to know this as a fact, I guess you're all just better football talent evaluators then I am ----- cause I don't know.

What I know is that #5 is a big talent with big skills--- so you better be real sure, 100% sure, before you let walk or push that out your door.

IMO if you rush that decision You're making a huge mistake,,, and frankly I don't think the Eagles FO will.

IMO, this year is a poor one -- due to many many reasons --- not just Mcnabb -- and his lower then expected performance!

Yes, my expectation level for #5 was much higher then how he has performed, and I (we) were all lulled into that expectation level based on what we were told, in our minds we all knew that the injury he was coming back from was at minimum a one year deal -- but we ignored our heads because we all wanted to.

And while I agree his play isn't/hasn't been good, and at times down right bad -- he is still only a part of the reason that this season went into the tank. And to think that his poor play at times is the single biggest problem, well then it is you with the myopic view, not I.

This team has many problems that need to be addressed and yes I do think one of them is the QB position -- but since I am not all seeing and all knowing and best NFL talent evaluator than many here think they are -- I don't know what that answer should be.

And I think there is a very businesslike manner in which you address this. You play Mcnabb till you as an organization are convinced that(( even with a upgrade in talent and upgrade in play by some very big underachievers next year)) he isn't the guy anymore to be your QB.

What you don't do is make a decision based on this year and this team and on emotion and knee jerk reaction -- about a team and a player of that magnitude -- until you have evaluated the entire situation. And BTW- the constant talk of his injuries as another black mark, is nothing more than a smoke screen IMO. He hasn't had a chronic injury yet, he is only 31 not 37 and from all reports he is in good physical shape. Bucky is a example of a chronic injury, and if we had allowed ourselves (and I have eaten crow here already and will do so again) to think the same way about Westy and his knees, he would have been gone about 3 or 4 years ago, and that would have been real smart!

Again, do I know that Mcnabb will or will not ever be a top 5 QB again??? No I don't,,,,,, and that is the difference between guys like me and VFK and some of the others that have posted in this thread.

So please stop with the twisting and redirecting of my position to what you want it to be!

If the shoe don't fit, don't wear it.

[sfphillyfan]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

His whole body is a chronic injury!!

The guy can't stay on the field for a whole season in 3 years and it's not a problem?

[RipRap]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

A note to everyone who thinks that people bashed mcnabb from the get go: I think that overall, 99% of the users on the board really really liked (if not loved) McNabb, which is why we feel so let down by him lately.

There are no McNabb haters here, to my knowledge. Only Eagles fans. Go to whomever you think is a McNabb hater, and guarantee them that we will win the most games with McNabb, and that supposed hater will be a supporter. We all just want to win games, that's what it comes down to. Not, disliking McNabb because he doesn't smile on the sidelines enough...blah,blah,blah....win games. Give us the best chance at a title. Problem is, fewer and fewer people believe he can do it, or that he is the best option for this club. I guess what I'm saying is, it's not an anti-McNabb agenda, it's a pro-Eagles agenda.

These two similar points sum up how I feel. I am interested in witnessing the Eagles win the SB. Short of that, to watch your team lose winnable games so frequently is torturous.

[Vote for Kalas]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

Everyone here knows I hate labels and name calling...that was one of the most important reasons we all came here and why we thank Vin, MD, Fresh and Juke for providing and moderating this great board...

Like MD, people can call me names and labels, but I try very hard to stick to the point and not retaliate. There is no one here who has a bigger pro-Eagles agenda; I just DISAGREE with the foregone conclusions many have made concerning McNabb and the denigrating of his abilities when it has been clear to me he has been injured all season, done the best he could with what he had and has been again the true professional we have come to expect/respect.

He has had very good games this season and is still a good QB. He has also had terrible games this season and shown his confidence suffers when he cannot do the things he wants to because of his injuries or whatever other factors are impacting the team this year. I believe the problems go BEYOND McNabb and that one player can never be the sole or even major reason why a team stumbles to a 5-8 record. There are FAR too many plays McNabb is not involved in that have helped lead to those losses for that to be even remotely true. But in this town we reflexively put most of the blame on the star and expect them to carry it and live it without any human response and that IMO is unfair, silly and vindictive. To blame McNabb for this is also crazy.

Kolb is not ready. Feeley is not a starting QB at this level. McNabb is the best QB we have. As I have said, I would have no problem if the Eagles parted ways with him due to the health issues and a judgement his best days are past. Trade him, get what value you can and move on. What I do disagree with is the revisionist history that he is never accurate, has no touch, is a poor leader, cannot make quick throws, cannot read defenses and all the other bullshit claims that have been made this year....he has in fact shown he can do ALL those things just like every other year, but has not been as consistent or effective due to the injuries and whatever other hundred factors are impacting the team.

Whatever happens, I am confident a healthy McNabb can continue to win in this league and I hope he gets the chance somewhere and wins a ring. I hope the Eagles win a ring too soon and can get back to the elite level they spoiled us with these last 8 years. I think Kolb has great potential and know that Reid is a great coach. We have alot of good talent on this team, but need to upgrade several positions and have our very young roster keep maturing.

[Blitz]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

Kolb was a 4 year starter in college, one season on the bench in the NFL is enough. He'll be ready to start in 2008. He's got a nice offensive line in front of him, and a great RB. The WRs are decent and they'll likely add someone. They'll likely upgrade the TE position too, giving him a dependable saftey valve.

Absolutely no reason whatsoever for Kolb to spend another season on the bench.

I couldn't agree more.

McNabb had no problem playing in his first year and taking over the second. So why should Kolb?

[ThoughtProcess]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

Everyone here knows I hate labels and name calling...that was one of the most important reasons we all came here and why we thank Vin, MD, Fresh and Juke for providing and moderating this great board...

Like MD, people can call me names and labels, but I try very hard to stick to the point and not retaliate. There is no one here who has a bigger pro-Eagles agenda; I just DISAGREE with the foregone conclusions many have made concerning McNabb and the denigrating of his abilities when it has been clear to me he has been injured all season, done the best he could with what he had and has been again the true professional we have come to expect/respect.

He has had very good games this season and is still a good QB. He has also had terrible games this season and shown his confidence suffers when he cannot do the things he wants to because of his injuries or whatever other factors are impacting the team this year. I believe the problems go BEYOND McNabb and that one player can never be the sole or even major reason why a team stumbles to a 5-8 record. There are FAR too many plays McNabb is not involved in that have helped lead to those losses for that to be even remotely true. But in this town we reflexively put most of the blame on the star and expect them to carry it and live it without any human response and that IMO is unfair, silly and vindictive. To blame McNabb for this is also crazy.

Kolb is not ready. Feeley is not a starting QB at this level. McNabb is the best QB we have. As I have said, I would have no problem if the Eagles parted ways with him due to the health issues and a judgement his best days are past. Trade him, get what value you can and move on. What I do disagree with is the revisionist history that he is never accurate, has no touch, is a poor leader, cannot make quick throws, cannot read defenses and all the other bullshit claims that have been made this year....he has in fact shown he can do ALL those things just like every other year, but has not been as consistent or effective due to the injuries and whatever other hundred factors are impacting the team.

Whatever happens, I am confident a healthy McNabb can continue to win in this league and I hope he gets the chance somewhere and wins a ring. I hope the Eagles win a ring too soon and can get back to the elite level they spoiled us with these last 8 years. I think Kolb has great potential and know that Reid is a great coach. We have alot of good talent on this team, but need to upgrade several positions and have our very young roster keep maturing.

[NoDakIggle]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

MD, I try not to go overboard and I try to stay a little bit grounded in the middle although I'm not always able to do that where the birds are concerned but... I don't think anyone can be 100% about DMac's future. It is a gamble to keep him and a gamble to let him go. How likely is it that he will return to 2004 form? Maybe 40%, maybe 50%, maybe 60%? No way to tell sitting behind a TV watching the media mouths. That is why I think it is such a hot issue. Myself, I think he can be successful in this league again. But I don't think th ere is any way he returns to his 2004 self so in order for him to succeed they better get him weapons.
VFK, not surprisingly I have to disagree. I don't think Andy has been a great coach. Excellent, yes. Best the birds have had in my 50+ years, yes. But I don't think he has done well at in game adjustments when teams throw different stuff at him, his use of timeouts has been poor, his lack of getting weapons for DMac are just a couple areas where I think he doesn't score high IMO. I like him, I think he has done well and maybe itis semantics but I don't think I would list him among great coaches.
I also don't think it is revisionist to say DMac is not accurate, has no touch, cannot make quick throws, etc. Has he done those things, yes and he has been successfull but he has a poor passes every game. Anyone who has watched him has seen him throw over, under, and beyond players. They have seen him throw rockets at 5 yards and throw quick outs behind the player. Just MO

[SwingOnThis]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

Getting better weapons would help McNabb out, since stud WRs and a stud TE would be more wide open, resulting in McNabb pulling the trigger and throwing to them, whereas the current WRs, while still pretty good in my estimation, don't get the 2-3 steps on a DB that they need for Donovan to throw to them.

But my question is this. Is it worth it? McNabb is extremely injury prone and it's unlikely that he's going to play a full 16 game season again. You have a young guy you drafted and will be ready to play next season. Why not go with youth, especially when McNabb still has value and you can get something for him in a trade? Also, who's to say that you'll be able to get any stud WRs? They don't grow on trees.

[SwingOnThis]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

I also don't think it is revisionist to say DMac is not accurate, has no touch, cannot make quick throws, etc. Has he done those things, yes and he has been successfull but he has a poor passes every game. Anyone who has watched him has seen him throw over, under, and beyond players. They have seen him throw rockets at 5 yards and throw quick outs behind the player. Just MO

McNabb has never been very accurate and never will be. He's an erratic passer and he knows this, and i'm pretty sure that's why he won't throw to guys unless they're really, really open, unless it's on a deep throw, or down the sideline w/ single coverage.

[FRESH]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

And once again if you try to take a position that isn't on one polar end or the other that position is transformed--- into one end or the other.

I am not a Mcnabb apologist or whatever label is being used.

What I believe is that I don't pretend to know if Mcnabb is done or not--many here seem to know this as a fact, I guess you're all just better football talent evaluators then I am ----- cause I don't know.

What I know is that #5 is a big talent with big skills--- so you better be real sure, 100% sure, before you let walk or push that out your door.

IMO if you rush that decision You're making a huge mistake,,, and frankly I don't think the Eagles FO will.

IMO, this year is a poor one -- due to many many reasons --- not just Mcnabb -- and his lower then expected performance!

Yes, my expectation level for #5 was much higher then how he has performed, and I (we) were all lulled into that expectation level based on what we were told, in our minds we all knew that the injury he was coming back from was at minimum a one year deal -- but we ignored our heads because we all wanted to.

And while I agree his play isn't/hasn't been good, and at times down right bad -- he is still only a part of the reason that this season went into the tank. And to think that his poor play at times is the single biggest problem, well then it is you with the myopic view, not I.

This team has many problems that need to be addressed and yes I do think one of them is the QB position -- but since I am not all seeing and all knowing and best NFL talent evaluator than many here think they are -- I don't know what that answer should be.

And I think there is a very businesslike manner in which you address this. You play Mcnabb till you as an organization are convinced that(( even with a upgrade in talent and upgrade in play by some very big underachievers next year)) he isn't the guy anymore to be your QB.

What you don't do is make a decision based on this year and this team and on emotion and knee jerk reaction -- about a team and a player of that magnitude -- until you have evaluated the entire situation. And BTW- the constant talk of his injuries as another black mark, is nothing more than a smoke screen IMO. He hasn't had a chronic injury yet, he is only 31 not 37 and from all reports he is in good physical shape. Bucky is a example of a chronic injury, and if we had allowed ourselves (and I have eaten crow here already and will do so again) to think the same way about Westy and his knees, he would have been gone about 3 or 4 years ago, and that would have been real smart!

Again, do I know that Mcnabb will or will not ever be a top 5 QB again??? No I don't,,,,,, and that is the difference between guys like me and VFK and some of the others that have posted in this thread.

So please stop with the twisting and redirecting of my position to what you want it to be!

If the shoe don't fit, don't wear it.

MD, I'll just say that if the Eagles hadn't drafted Kolb, I don't think you'd see nearly as many people willing/ready to move on. The Eagles were obviously very high on Kolb, and thought he was a very good fit for their system. Gotta have a little faith in that, too. And if you think that Kolb might just be as good as they believe, and also consider the resources you will be freeing up in letting McNabb go, the overall picture looks like it may be rather promising. No one is so savvy as to know that this team wouldn't be better off with Kolb + some added weapons, so you have to allow that that perspective may be right as well. It's all speculation, and I can understand why people would support both sides of the debate.

[SwingOnThis]

Re: Your feelings on McNabb.......NOW?

I'd also venture to say that drafting Kolb was partly due to Donovan getting injured so much, but also partly because watching how the offense functioned w/ Garcia showed them what this team could be w/ a QB who doesn't hold onto the football forever.